WWE RAW Discussion

[Matt]

Talk about Raw here!

[masterthes]

Well, who saw it tonight? Fairly good build-up to Summerslam. Lita revealed to Matt that Kane is indeed the father. Kane's reactions during the contract signing were priceless.

The Edge/Chris Jericho match was awesome. No way are they going to do better at the PPV. Love how WWE are making us think with this one as to who's turning heel. My money is still on Edge.

Diva dodgeball match. Meh. Carmella will probably win it.

I'm really liking the return of the old, really "cerebral assasin" HHH. He's getting back to more the monster heel he used to be, instead of a Ric Flair throwback. The Eugene/HHH will be the most brutal match of the night. Very intense.

Did I mention how much I'm digging Randy Orton? That opening segment was great with Benoit punking him out. This match will probably be the best RAW match of the PPV.

[Bordick]

I nodded off around a little after 8 and woke up around 10 and missed the first half.....I haven't done that in years. I was so pissed.

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by masterthes
The Edge/Chris Jericho match was awesome. No way are they going to do better at the PPV. Love how WWE are making us think with this one as to who's turning heel. My money is still on Edge.Jericho just went back to being face in December, so I doubt they would have him turn again so soon.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by masterthes
Well, who saw it tonight? Fairly good build-up to Summerslam. Lita revealed to Matt that Kane is indeed the father. Kane's reactions during the contract signing were priceless.

Yeah, Raw was good, overall. I still can't stand the Lita/Matt/Kane storyline, if only for the whole Preggers part of it. And that Lita really isn't great at acting. She's trying but she doesn't have much to work with. Kane's the driving force behind the whole storyline, and his reactions at Raw were GREAT. I'd have liked more of a beatdown of Kane by Matt than he gave him, it didn't match Matt's intensity at all. Felt like a letdown.

In any event, I see Lita turning on Matt at the PPV.

Edge/Chris Jericho match was awesome. No way are they going to do better at the PPV. Love how WWE are making us think with this one as to who's turning heel. My money is still on Edge.

That match was GOLD. Apparently, Raw's set to have Edge/Jericho feud for the IC title, and Battista's along for the ride...for now. Edge's set to turn heel, they've been teasing it for weeks.

a dodgeball match. Meh. Carmella will probably win it.

I pray to god no. I'll be searching for a bottle of Jack Daniels during this matchup....the whole Diva contest is annoying and insulting. Not a single one of those girls can actually wrestle. And they're all BAD at acting, so there's no point in them being on air diva talent. Go back to playboy, girls. I'd rather see Victoria against Molly any day.

I'm really liking the return of the old, really "cerebral assasin" HHH. He's getting back to more the monster heel he used to be, instead of a Ric Flair throwback. The Eugene/HHH will be the most brutal match of the night. Very intense.

Totally agree on him becoming the "cerebral assassin" again. Funny thing is, is that he's doing this against a "mentally handicapped" wrestler who doesn't understand any of it. Eugene will be more than Hunter can handle, but I think HHH will squeak out with a Pedigree pinfall.

And notice that Hunter's become the monster from 2000 ever since he grew back his beard? :lol

Did I mention how much I'm digging Randy Orton? That opening segment was great with Benoit punking him out. This match will probably be the best RAW match of the PPV.

Was it just me or did Orton NOT want to deal with the Divas at all? And Benoit really should win at the PPV, I don't think Orton's ready yet. Maybe have Orton lose because Hunter screws up a run-in? That'd be interesting. But I'd rather see Benoit keep the World Title for a bit longer.

Fafhrd

[Matt]

so what happened last night?

[fafhrd]

On Raw, there were a few developments:

1. They announced that Kane and Lita will "get married" next week on Raw, and they also announced that HBK will be returning that week as well. It's been long known that HBK will be feuding with Kane when he returns.

2. Edge and Jericho are clearly heading for a IC title feud, with Edge returning the "favor" of not helping save Jericho from a Battista beatdown- just like Jericho didn't help save Edge two weeks ago.

3. No Eugene on the show, that was a suprise.

4. They're setting up a Rhyno/Tajiri vs. La Resistance feud, finally, for the Tag Titles.

5. Evolution beat down the new champion, Randy Orton, after they helped interfere in his rematch with Benoit to keep the title on Orton. Only Hunter can lead Evolution...and only Hunter can be champ in Evolution.

Looks like it'll be a Orton/Hunter/Benoit feud now.

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by fafhrd
Only Hunter can lead Evolution...and only Hunter can be champ in Evolution.I guess they should have mentioned that before Summerslam.

[Matt]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
I guess they should have mentioned that before Summerslam.

:lol Yeah if that's corporate policy, it would be good to let your employees know. That's silly.

So um, Benoit lost the belt to the horrible Orton? sad!

[masterthes]

I tell you, that ending was very shocking. It was very well done.

And stop bad-mouthing your Lord and Saviour Randy Orton. :lol

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by Matt UGA
:lol Yeah if that's corporate policy, it would be good to let your employees know. That's silly.

So um, Benoit lost the belt to the horrible Orton? sad!

Well, if you think about it, it's a given that Orton was gonna be screwed by Evolution eventually. Does anyone in their right minds think that Hunter would like Randy as champ in Evolution? Or Flair? Hunter reminded Randy a few weeks ago, when Randy won the #1 contendership that "I'm The Game.....I don't need any thanks." And then on Raw, he reminds Randy that "he's the youngest champion, ever. Hell, Flair didn't even win his first title until he was about 31."

And methinks that Randy and HHH will end up feuding at WM 21, but it'll be non title. Wouldn't suprise me to see Benoit win the title back down the line from Orton, and feud with someone else.

Orton's biggest problem was exposed at the PPV, btw. His interview was interrupted by John Cena, who blew away Orton's entire history of mike work in a grand total of three seconds.

In fact, Benoit's mike work on Raw was far more impressive than Orton's meandering opening speech. Ow.

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by fafhrd
And methinks that Randy and HHH will end up feuding at WM 21, but it'll be non title.I agree. I would rather it be non-title.

[Bordick]

Originally posted by masterthes
Diva dodgeball match. Meh. Carmella will probably win it.
She no showed.......after watching Raw.....she sounds like a bitch.


Orton winning was a shocker. Came out of nowhere....but I gotta say....the belt fits.

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by Bordick
Orton winning was a shocker. Came out of nowhere....but I gotta say....the belt fits.Watch the ending of Rock/Brock at Summerslam '02, you can see that history definitely repeats itself.

And the belt does fit nicely, surprising since it usually looks better on the wider champions: HHH, Goldberg, and Benoit. It looked strange on Michaels when he held it for that one month.

[Bordick]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
And the belt does fit nicely, surprising since it usually looks better on the wider champions: HHH, Goldberg, and Benoit. It looked strange on Michaels when he held it for that one month.
That, actually was a different belt. Same gold plate design, different strap. It's since has been WWE-ized to be more form fitting and added the logo at the top of the center piece.

[B1ade Runner]

It still looked strange on Michaels.

[Bordick]

the center peice on the old belt was alot bigger. if you look at old WCW clips.....it was strange on lots of folks.

[masterthes]

It's a strange belt in general.

[Bordick]

Originally posted by Matt UGA
So um, Benoit lost the belt to the horrible Orton? sad!
It was a pretty good match.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
And the belt does fit nicely, surprising since it usually looks better on the wider champions: HHH, Goldberg, and Benoit. It looked strange on Michaels when he held it for that one month.

When Benoit had the title, you could just see the smile on his face, every time he walked out there, with the belt. He was like a kid in a candy store, loving every minute of it.

And I love how he always shoved the title in Hunter's face whenever they met in the ring. It was a nice little dig, where Benoit can basically say "See? See? Yeah, yeah, to be the man, you've got to beat the man, blah blah blah....You be The Game, I'll just be the champion. How's that sound?" :lol

I think Michaels just felt awkward coming back from such a layoff (4 years) and then being thrust right into the middle of a World Title run like that. He didn't know if he had what it takes to compete at that level again (methinks he finally "got it" with his WM XIX match against Jericho), and it showed.

On the other hand, please never mention Goldberg in the same sentence as HHH and Benoit. Ever. :lol

Fafhrd

[Bordick]

Originally posted by fafhrd
I think Michaels just felt awkward coming back from such a layoff (4 years) and then being thrust right into the middle of a World Title run like that. He didn't know if he had what it takes to compete at that level again (methinks he finally "got it" with his WM XIX match against Jericho), and it showed.
Faf, Brody was talking about how the belt physically looked when Michaels held it. Not his perpetual mindset.

[fafhrd]

I know, but the way he wore it just radiated "I'm not comfortable with this" on a visual level. When he wore the belt, it just didn't feel right looking at him with it.

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by fafhrd
When he wore the belt, it just didn't feel right looking at him with it.Because it looked like he was wearing a garbage lid around his waist.

[Bordick]

I'm not looking forward to tonight.......No doubt there will be new Randy Orton music.....I have a feeling it'll be horrible.

[Phantasm]

It COULD possibly be the music that played last week during his highlight video.

My prediction is that Shawn Michaels shows up in disguise as the priest for the wedding, and ends up giving Kane the Sweet Chin Music. Folled by HBK and Matt Hardy tag team matches vs Kane and somebody else...

[B1ade Runner]

No run-in. :(

[Bordick]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
No run-in. :(
well....none that amounted to anything.....I was waiting for the superkick pre-copyright....but alas.



No Randy Orton music change yet.......delaying the inevitable.

[fafhrd]

The Jericho/Edge match was great up until the ending. That was lame.

And I really don't want to see a Battista/Benoit feud. No way is Battista ready for Benoit.

Orton needed to talk on Raw, that was WAAAAY too long of a HHH monolouge (but still good).

Guess next week we'll see HBK return. Hopefully he'll deal with Kane and get this Kane/Lita thing over with.

Fafhrd

[Phantasm]

Get it over with? You've a few months. Remember, they were planning to go full term with the pregnancy.

[phenotype31]

Orton needed to talk on Raw, that was WAAAAY too long of a HHH monolouge (but still good).

Nah. Orton's terrible on the mike. If he had to open his mouth for that, it would have to be damn good. We know it wouldn't have been.

Hopefully Orton can loosen up, I think he doesn't want to be seen as Rock Lite by trying to bring some bravado to his character...but he needs to at least loosen up.

[Col. Kurtz]

What a way to build up your face champion. Have him hit Triple H with a belt and run away. Ehhh.

I don't think I'll be watching for a while. Maybe start again in January for the Rumble.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by Col. Kurtz
What a way to build up your face champion. Have him hit Triple H with a belt and run away. Ehhh.

I don't think I'll be watching for a while. Maybe start again in January for the Rumble.

It makes sense, he knew it would aggravate Hunter more than anything. That was his point, and it worked. And he bolted when he realized he'd be recieving a 3 on 1 beatdown by Evolution. That's smart. Orton's got a ways to go before he becomes a true "face" champion, but he'll be ok as a tweener for now.

Did you expect him, overnight, to start kissing fans?

Fafhrd

[Col. Kurtz]

I meant in the sense of building him up as a credible champion. Sure he beat Benoit, but why not put him over Batista clean on RAW? It's better than having just one segment dedicated to the new World Champion.

[Phantasm]

Give it time, Kurtz. You get bored easily, don't you? A little impatient much?

[Bordick]

Now he gets the new music.....not too sure yet.

Diva contest gets more interesting by the week...:lol

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by Bordick
Now he gets the new music.....not too sure yet.

Diva contest gets more interesting by the week...:lol The new music was pretty terrible.

And did Joy actually use the phrase "cock in your mouth?" Whatever happened to the witty double entendres?

[Bordick]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
And did Joy actually use the phrase "cock in your mouth?" Whatever happened to the witty double entendres?

Not to be sexist....but when have women ever had decent promos?

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by Bordick
Not to be sexist....but when have women ever had decent promos? Never...but "cock in your mouth?!?"

[Bordick]

You say that like as if "cock in your mouth" is a bad thing.






wait a minute. :blat

[B1ade Runner]

I second that: :blat

[Bordick]

Battle Royal next week.............should be cool

[Bordick]

um.....what?

[masterthes]

My thoughts exactly Bordick. Godamn cliffhanger ending. Well, at least we know there'll most likely be a new champ crowned, at least I hope.

[Bordick]

there wasn't even a hanging cliff moment.....I mean I can understand that's what they were going for.....but they f*cked up somewhere along the line

[fafhrd]

I liked it, it sets up a match between Benoit and Edge, who have a nice rivalry going on. And it gets the title off of Hunter, who's prob due for a Battista/Orton/Hunter feud now.

Next week, we get RAW IS JERICHO!!! How does Jericho go after the title now that Edge and Benoit can both lay claim to it?

Btw, nice twist that they're going for with Maven.

Fafhrd

[Phantasm]

Neither will be crowned champion. Can you say Benoit vs Edge--- Ladder Match for the world title?

[masterthes]

I have to wonder though if Jericho's going to top that diva segment from tonight. That diva segment made me feel very happy

[B1ade Runner]

I bet the writers find a way to have HHH retain.

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by fafhrd
And it gets the title off of Hunter, who's prob due for a Battista/Orton/Hunter feud now. I disagree. I was actually getting used to the idea of an Orton/HHH rematch at WrestleMania. Orton challenging Hunter for the title is much more interesting than having him defend it, which was merely a teaser.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
I disagree. I was actually getting used to the idea of an Orton/HHH rematch at WrestleMania. Orton challenging Hunter for the title is much more interesting than having him defend it, which was merely a teaser.

I don't want Hunter to have the title around him for WM 21, that would be both redundant, and it would also be too darn obvious what they'd be going for. I think an Orton/Battista/Hunter feud would make things much more interesting, and without the title as well.

Let Edge, Jericho, Michaels, and Benoit fight for the title.

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

I agree that it (having him lose the title two years in a row) would be redundant, but it seems the only clear contender for a main event.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
I agree that it (having him lose the title two years in a row) would be redundant, but it seems the only clear contender for a main event.

That's because we haven't yet been presented with an alternative. We are now: Edge vs. Benoit. It's clear that they're banking on this one, if you look at how much airtime that their feud's gotten so far.

Btw, who do you think will win the Rumble? I think it'll be a Smackdown wrestler this year.

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

Edge/Benoit at WrestleMania? :yuck

They have had too many matches on RAW in the past month for me to care.

[B1ade Runner]

I agree with you about a Smackdown superstar winning the rumble, it would definitely surprise viewers for the second straight year.

The only problem with that is that SD has headlined a double-brand PPV since Judgment Day 2003, when Brock Lesnar defeated Big Show in a "stretcher match."

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
Edge/Benoit at WrestleMania? :yuck

They have had too many matches on RAW in the past month for me to care.

Their matchups were all no contests, or just non-match brawls. I can see them running this for months on end. They've got chemistry in the ring, and they're getting good work on the mic (even Benoit is!!!) in there as well.

Fafhrd

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
I agree with you about a Smackdown superstar winning the rumble, it would definitely surprise viewers for the second straight year.

The only problem with that is that SD has headlined a double-brand PPV since Judgment Day 2003, when Brock Lesnar defeated Big Show in a "stretcher match."

The only question I'm left with is: who would win the Rumble? Eddie? Angle? Cena? RVD?

A really cool suprise would be Rey Misterio.

Fafhrd

[Phantasm]

Originally posted by masterthes
I have to wonder though if Jericho's going to top that diva segment from tonight. That diva segment made me feel very happy

That segment, while tastey looking (for the most part... That first "diva" wasn't easy on the eyes a bit), was just a huge waste of time. Plus, if I were Christie I'd be pissed that all of the losers are getting hired.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by PhantaZm Azh
That segment, while tastey looking (for the most part... That first "diva" wasn't easy on the eyes a bit), was just a huge waste of time. Plus, if I were Christie I'd be pissed that all of the losers are getting hired.

Word we're hearing is that the Diva search was rigged, and that many were going to end up in the WWE anyways.

Fafhrd

[Matt]

any rumors about Brock Lesnar coming back yet? Didn't he get cut in football?

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by fafhrd
The only question I'm left with is: who would win the Rumble? Eddie? Angle? Cena? RVD?

A really cool suprise would be Rey Misterio. I think it would be interesting to have Angle turn face and win.

Cena might be a close second, but the only wrestler to make the jump from the opening of a WM to the main event the next year is Jericho, and I doubt that would happen again any time soon.

[B1ade Runner]

Wow, they actually followed through with Triple H losing the title...for now.

[fafhrd]

my thoughts are that Hunter will get involved in a side feud with either Randy Orton or Battista. Edge clearly seems to be the guy who'd have the most storylines around him, if he got the title, at this stage. Also, they should never have gotten the title off of Benoit the way they did, earlier in the year. Giving him a transitional run in between now and WM 21 would be a nice way of saying "um, sorry".

Nice to see Maven turn heel, and also nice to see Lita win the women's title in a suprisingly good Women's Title main event.

Any thoughts on Mohammed Hassan?

Fafhrd

[fafhrd]

.

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by fafhrd
Also, they should never have gotten the title off of Benoit the way they did, earlier in the year. Giving him a transitional run in between now and WM 21 would be a nice way of saying "um, sorry". What was wrong with the way Benoit lost the title? He had a long, healthy run from March to August, he had three successful PPV defenses (granted, no one actually thought he was going to lose it to Kane), and he was never (and still hasn't been) defeated by HHH.

[masterthes]

I've been waiting 5 years for that kiss. Very nice.

RAW was awesome last night. Too bad Jericho didn't get his shot at the title, and yes, on the Maven heel turn, about damned time. Loving this slow turn by Batista, this is the way to go on that.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
What was wrong with the way Benoit lost the title? He had a long, healthy run from March to August, he had three successful PPV defenses (granted, no one actually thought he was going to lose it to Kane), and he was never (and still hasn't been) defeated by HHH.

He never should have lost it to Orton; Orton's subsequent loss to Hunter the following month basically clinched it. The only guys he should have lost that title to are: Jericho, Hunter, or Michaels. Edge and Orton are on the outside looking in.

And the WWE all but admitted that the hotshotted the storyline where Orton won the title, and that they did it badly, too.

Fafhrd

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by masterthes
I've been waiting 5 years for that kiss. Very nice.

RAW was awesome last night. Too bad Jericho didn't get his shot at the title, and yes, on the Maven heel turn, about damned time. Loving this slow turn by Batista, this is the way to go on that.

I loved the suit Jericho wore for the show.......it was clear that they knew Jericho's show would be the best of the bunch, so they let him go LAST. Jericho is now the official "Best Dressed Wrestler on Raw". Screw Evolution and their sports suits! It's Y2J time, monkeys!

Lita kissing Trish was classic, and it came out of NOWHERE. Great match, too. I like how the WWE cleans up the women's division, the fans bitch about it and call it the death of the women's division, and then they do a great main event for the women's title. Heh.

Battista's slow face turn has been handled SO much better than Orton's turn. He's already a better mike worker than Orton is. And Flair's been great in that, too.

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by fafhrd
Battista's slow face turn has been handled SO much better than Orton's turn. I agree with you on that one. They are gradually building to their feud a little bit more every week, whereas Orton went from a heel contender to feuding with Hunter within a matter of weeks.

[Bordick]

days really....Summerslam and then the next night was when HHH went all thumbs down on him

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by Bordick
days really....Summerslam and then the next night was when HHH went all thumbs down on him

Yeah, thats right....it went WAY too fast. Hotshotted itself to death!

Fafhrd

[fafhrd]

Btw, is it just me, or do Orton and Edge have great chemistry together on the mike?

Fafhrd

[Bordick]

I hope HHH doesn't end up getting the title back.....I look forward to a Batista turn on him in the Royal Rumble. Perfect place for that.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by Bordick
I hope HHH doesn't end up getting the title back.....I look forward to a Batista turn on him in the Royal Rumble. Perfect place for that.

good point, but that leaves me wondering who actually will win the Rumble. I pray to GOD that it's not Orton.

Fafrd

[B1ade Runner]

Originally posted by Bordick
days really....Summerslam and then the next night was when HHH went all thumbs down on him I'm referring to the two weeks before Summerslam, when Orton was referring to out-doing Brock Lesnar and then pinning Benoit in a tag match.

[B1ade Runner]

I always thought an Evolution fatal-four way would be cool, but Flair would get pummeled within a matter of seconds.

[Phantasm]

Say it with me... "Batista". One t. It's not like it's Booker TT, or Tthe Underttaker.



(Sorry, grumpy. Got fired today)

[B1ade Runner]

Or "Bautista," if you want to be technical.

[B1ade Runner]

ELIMINATION CHAMBER!!!

:bluntchop :bluntchop :bluntchop :bluntchop :bluntchop

[masterthes]

Foley is GOD!!! How awesome was that promo? Need to get a person over? Just call on Mrs. Foley's baby boy!

[fafhrd]

Foley IS god! I love it when someone gives Foley a reason to be indignant.

Hassan is going to be controversial, there's no doubt about that. The man physically looks good, though......remains to be seen how his wrestling fundamentals are. Wonder if he'll punk out Sgt. Slaughter anytime soon. Actually, I'd rather not see that.

And the elimination chamber is a great idea for the next ppv. Btw, did anyone catch Batista's facial expressions when Bischoff named him to the Elimination Chamber list? That was priceless.

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

I hope they deliver on the promise of a Batista/Hunter conflict in the match better than they did the Orton/Hunter conflict at the last Elimination Chamber.

[Bordick]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
I hope they deliver on the promise of a Batista/Hunter conflict in the match better than they did the Orton/Hunter conflict at the last Elimination Chamber.
Well this time there's no Goldberg cleaning house to throw it out the window.

[B1ade Runner]

Amen, this time the "house cleaner" IS the Evolution member.

[fafhrd]

That's assuming they even go the "house cleaner" route. Jericho and Edge will most likely start things off, and either Hunter or Orton will be the last two ones in. I can't see Batista being the last one in....that would be too obvious. I also think that neither Orton, Hunter, or Batista will end up with the title.

My bet is that either Benoit or Edge will walk off with the title.

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

They will go with the "house cleaner" route, only because the previous two EC matches have gone that way, most likely relying on the "big man," in this case, Batista, to do the dirty work somewhere around the middle of the match.

[fafhrd]

Originally posted by B1ade Runner
They will go with the "house cleaner" route, only because the previous two EC matches have gone that way, most likely relying on the "big man," in this case, Batista, to do the dirty work somewhere around the middle of the match.

In the first one, who did the "house cleaning"...was that Kane?

Fafhrd

[B1ade Runner]

Yep, he came in and choke-slammed Jericho, Hunter, and Michaels.

[fafhrd]

Ah, yes, thanks for reminding me. I still have images of myself at MSG for that PPV, screaming at HBK NOT TO SUPERKICK JERICHO WHEN HE HAD HUNTER IN THE WALLS. ARGH. Hunter submits, last two guys are Jericho/Michaels. Instead, Jericho get superkicked, gets pinned, and HBK barely beats Hunter for the title.

Fafhrd