View Full Version : Matrix Revolutions - Pre Release Thread (NO SPOILERS PLEASE)
<IMG SRC=http://www.filmhobbit.com/moviereviews/images/matrix3/post3.jpg align=right border=1><FONT SIZE=4 color=#008000><b>The Matrix Revolutions</B></FONT>
<B>Rated :</B> R
<B>Starring:</B> Keanu Reeves, Laurence Fishburne, Carrie Ann Moss, Hugo Weaving, Jada Pinkett Smith, Lambert Wilson
<B>Directed by</B> Andy & Larry Wachowski
<B>Produced by</B> Joel Silver
<B>Written by</B> Andy & Larry Wachowski
<U><B>Reviews so far:</B></U>
<i>"This movie delivers on the promise of the original film in a way <b>Matrix Reloaded</b> didn?t. The Wachowskis have thrown everything they have at the screen and, wouldn?t you know, it works. The film has enormous action sequences chock-full of </i>?Holy Shit!?<i> moments that make the freeway chase in the second film seem tiny and insignificant in comparison, yet even with these bigger set pieces the movie manages (rather surprisingly) to elevate the human drama in a way most FX-driven movies seem unable to do."</i><b> - CarpalTunnelDude, AICN</b>
What do you think will happen in Revolutions??
Make your predictions now!
My predictions?
Agent Smith gets a promotional deal with Subway, and tells America how eating Subway gave him the strength he needed to make an Agent Smith clone out of Jerrod.
The final climax? Dance dance dance!
:p
B1ade Runner
05-20-2003, 01:21 AM
My only prediction for Revolutions is that it will be better than Reloaded, but not as good as the original.
Evil Dead Junkie
05-20-2003, 11:01 AM
Sounds about right but then again you didn't like Reloaded.
Mr. Anderson will wake up at his computer starts sending him a message.
IT'S A FREAKING TIME LOOP.
If that happens, I'm gonna whoop some Wachowski ass.
My god. If time travel comes into it I will kill everyone in Hollywood.
I predict that somehow Agent Smith is the key to victory.
I predict the return of Cipher! (wishful thinking)
I predict that Neo will not die.
I predict that Morpheus will die.
I predict that the Merovingian is somehow the ORIGINAL ONE and that Persephone is a Trinity equivalent.
I predict that Link will get some pussy.
Taln Hess
05-20-2003, 11:07 AM
Somehow the humans and machines will come to a mutually beneficial agreement, seeing as how they need each other to survive.
I'm assuming Neo's final fight with Smith will be a part of that, as Smith has to be ruining people hooked into the Matrix with his duplicating (like a virus).
To make any more predictions I'll need to read up on the philosophy on which the Matrix is based on... which I've been meaning to do since the first one came out.
Originally posted by Taln Hess
Somehow the humans and machines will come to a mutually beneficial agreement, seeing as how they need each other to survive.
Now that's interesting and that's something that I've heard a lot of people say over the past few days.
It is certainly something that is repeatedly foreshadowed in Reloaded.
But then... how can they come to such an agreement? The machines need the humans in order to survive... and humans need machines in order to survive. It is true. But in the case of the machines, they need the humans to be slaves in order to survive... there is no other way for them to get what they need from them. How else can they possibly agree to anything else?
In that case then, how can the two sides ever reach an agreement?
Taln Hess
05-20-2003, 11:22 AM
Maybe all the dumb rednecks who beat up on Hobbits in movie theatres remain connected to the Matrix?
Um, they reach an agreement???? Of all the sissy ass Kumbayah crap I have ever heard.. lol If that happens, I'm gonna murder someone. lol
Originally posted by Matt UGA
Um, they reach an agreement???? Of all the sissy ass Kumbayah crap I have ever heard.. lol If that happens, I'm gonna murder someone. lol
They do keep alluding to it though Matt. Think of the Counselor's speech in the engineering level, his subtle point about how humans need machines as much as the machines need them.
Evil Dead Junkie
05-20-2003, 11:35 AM
I agree with Matt their is a time and place for Kumbayaa Crap anime influenced ass whooping Cyber Punk is neither the time nor the place.
I interpreted it as like a Gandalf speech. You remember when Frodo wished death on Gollum?
Well, the counselor is telling NEO that not all of the machines are bad. Maybe alluding to the keymaker, persephone, that sort of thing.
An agreement really isn't practical unless the agreement is that the human race will agree to still be hooked up to the matrix. Which is kinda absurd.
Originally posted by Matt UGA
An agreement really isn't practical unless the agreement is that the human race will agree to still be hooked up to the matrix. Which is kinda absurd.
My point exactly Matt.
But I think that kind of foreshadowing like the Counselor's speech is where people get the idea that an agreement will be reached.
I take it the way you do, that he was preparing Neo and us for the humans to recieve help from some rogue segment of the machines (Persephone)
Hayzen
05-21-2003, 12:25 AM
I predict that the Merovingian is somehow the ORIGINAL ONE and that Persephone is a Trinity equivalent.
No, the Merovingian and Persephone are both AI, but I think Persephone is supposed to play a bigger role in Revolutions.
Originally posted by Hayzen
No, the Merovingian and Persephone are both AI,
Right, but again, that doesn't explain why Merovingian is referred to as being like Neo.
Taln Hess
05-21-2003, 11:19 AM
A mutual agreement between man and machine would not have to include the Matrix, in fact, obviously the Matrix wouldn't work as part of a mutual agreement.
The Matrix was built because we scorched the sky, cutting off the solar power that the machines used to run. As an alternate source of energy, they began harvesting and slaving humans.
Part of a mutual agreement would be to find another way for the machines to remain operational, freeing humans from their bondage.
I'm not saying it'll happen, it just seemed to be alluded to several times, so it's what I'm expecting.
Ok, but if they find an alternative fuel source for the machines, then why do they need the humans at all?
Taln Hess
05-21-2003, 11:32 AM
Silence User!
I dunno, to maintain them? (nope)... to create more? (nope)...
Maybe to provide a continous source of energy...
Dude, I'm grasping at frickin' straws here. Why are my theories the one subject to target practice this week? Go pick on someone else!!! Jeez... teach me to post around here anymore...
:)
lol!
Well you see what I mean then. There is no reason for the machines to ever reach an agreement with the humans. I can't imagine any scenario in which they would... even though Reloaded REALLY seems to be foreshadowing that.
Hayzen
05-21-2003, 12:26 PM
When did they ever say the Merovingian was like Neo???
Originally posted by Hayzen
When did they ever say the Merovingian was like Neo???
Psst see my post further up. :)
TheArchitect
10-01-2003, 01:27 AM
I believe that the humans and machines WILL somehow come to peaceful terms. Why you ask?
-Reason 1: IF you saw the Second Renaissance Part 1 and Part 2, which is part of the Animatrix, you would know that peace is what the machines originally wanted, but humanity shun them because they feared them.
-Reason 2: IF you saw the newest Revolutions trailer on the official website, you would see Neo talking with what looks to be one of the machine 'overlords' so to speak. Neo offers his help in getting rid of Agent Smith because the machines cannot do it on their own.
Now, my question is about the Merovingian and it has been puzzling me for quite some time now. Now, supposedly he is a rogue program, right? And he has met Neo's five predeccesors, right? Well, if this is the SIXTH version of the Matrix, and he is a ROGUE program (meaning he chose exile over deletion), first: how is he able to remember all 5 other Ones if the system has been resetted 5 times before, and two: why is he still here? Since running programs are shut down due to a reset, how is he able to stay in the Matrix untouched by the reset?
Anyways, just my thoughts...give me some feedback, arguements, theories, etc.
crappertay
10-01-2003, 05:14 AM
Welcome to the forum Archie :D
TheArchitect is right, in Second Renaissance, it does point out that after the machines smashed up and exiled, they set up their own country, 01, and then approach the UN to appeal for some kind of peace treaty. It was the humans who made the first strike by violently rejecting the offer.
I think there is a point there. The trailer does strongly point to Neo having to "play both sides" as it were. It never once says that only one world can survive, it implies that unless Smith is stopped, both worlds will be destroyed.
How this ties in to stopping the thousands of Sentinels attacking Zion though...
The Merovinian obviously has access to Neo at some point or has the key as to how to wake him from his coma when he demands "bring me the eyes of the oracle and I'll give you back your saviour". This MAY have some link as to why Neo appears to be blinded in some scenes in the trailer also.
One person I noticed who got a hella lot of screen time in the original trailer but who was noticable by his absense in the new one was Seraph. He too seems to be fighting for and against the humans at various points there - Neo noticed he had a bizarre golden glow instead of traditional green one - and in the new trailer so does Smith/Bane when Neo sees him in the real world - whar does it mean. No idea, we've not been given enough info to really speculate on his character except he takes some names in the process.
Niobe and Morpheus exchange words in the trailer, where Morpheus says she never believed in The One. Niobe responds with "I still don't, I belive in him."
This implies that there are those who still don't believe the prophecy and that Morpheus, despite Neo telling him the Prophecy was a machine ploy, is still clinging to it somehow. But at the same time, the non-believers are still acknowledging that Neo can ultimately bring "peace". This would tie into why the Council were so lax with regards to letting Morpheus do his thing while the others defended Zion.
Phew, all I can say is... who knows.
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 11:07 AM
One thing I don't think Neo is Blind I just don't think anyone here has watched a Kung-fu movie.
OK, what is Neo doing when he's blindfolded. Putting the Jack in by himself without hands. Now Why would he be doing this? To test his "New Powers" in the "Real World". Why is he blindfolded? Its probably just easier for him to consentrate without the distraction of sight. Think Star Wars.
crappertay
10-01-2003, 11:10 AM
Who said it was him jacking himself in? You could also read the trailer as being the machines plugging him in to go kick Smith's ass for them...
Isn't speculating fun... no right answers.
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 11:11 AM
Hmmm...
But Trinity was right next to him. When he's talking to the machines he's talking alone.
crappertay
10-01-2003, 11:16 AM
Just watched it again (Save As rocks).
Neo is on his own. But he is talking to someone off-camera when he replies "I won't."
You could be right.
I think it has something to do with this "between world" the Oracle talks about.
What was that big robot thingy talking to Neo in the trailer?
Is that a head machine or sumpin?
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 11:18 AM
I think that's like the collective conscience of the machines.
Second Renasonce says they are a hive mind. So theirs the head hive.
I think its worth noting that the baby face is REALLY starting to freak me out.
crappertay
10-01-2003, 11:38 AM
What the hell is he blabbering about?
I think its worth noting that the baby face is REALLY starting to freak me out.
:lol Don't worry, I got the same feeling after I got a closer look.
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by crappertay
What the hell is he blabbering about?
Did you watch the preview :blat
Take a closer look at the big God Machine, the second time its shown its got a big Akira type Baby Face on. Intolerance Back me up on this one.
EDJ is absolutely correct, it's freaky..
It's only a quick camera shot, but if you pay attention, you'll see it.
http://members.cox.net/intolerance/Images/baby1.bmp
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 02:30 PM
Thank you.
See just cause I say it doesn't make it wrong:lol
crappertay
10-01-2003, 02:36 PM
*squints*
Um...
*turns up brightness*
Is this like one of those stereograms from the mid-90s...
Hehe, I tried my best to get a nice clear shot of it, but there really weren't any...all dark ones.
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by crappertay
*squints*
Um...
*turns up brightness*
Is this like one of those stereograms from the mid-90s...
Just pause it on your own computer, I'm sure it'll look better then.
Nope, looks the same on my computer when I did pause it. That's the exact image of what I saw when I decided to pause it. But, I'll go back and try again to see if I can't possibly capture a slightly better still.
Valkary
10-01-2003, 02:51 PM
I'm a bit freaked out we have the same wallpaper.
For a second i was thinking, 'how the hell did he get a screenshot of MY desktop??' but then i had another hit of caffiene and it's ok now.
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Intolerance
Nope, looks the same on my computer when I did pause it. That's the exact image of what I saw when I decided to pause it. But, I'll go back and try again to see if I can't possibly capture a slightly better still.
No No you did a great job, thanks for the proof or the damned hobbit would probably cart me off to the loony bin.
I was talking to Tay
Hehe, I was trying to find a better still anyway to post..but no luck.
I'm a bit freaked out we have the same wallpaper.
For a second i was thinking, 'how the hell did he get a screenshot of MY desktop??' but then i had another hit of caffiene and it's ok now.
Heh, I had the original poster for a while with the front shot of Aragorn holding his sword, but decided I wanted a change after a bit, and put the shot of the back of his head on.:D ..Beautiful camera shot at that though.
TheArchitect
10-01-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by TheArchitect
Now, my question is about the Merovingian and it has been puzzling me for quite some time now. Now, supposedly he is a rogue program, right? And he has met Neo's five predeccesors, right? Well, if this is the SIXTH version of the Matrix, and he is a ROGUE program (meaning he chose exile over deletion), first: how is he able to remember all 5 other Ones if the system has been resetted 5 times before, and two: why is he still here? Since running programs are shut down due to a reset, how is he able to stay in the Matrix untouched by the reset?
Does anyone have a theory about this? It's REALLY bugging me...
Also a theory as to the blindfold...it is quite possible it's that whoe mind-over-matter thing...perhaps what he is doing is making his mind act like what it cannot see cannot hurt him? That might explain the part in the trailer when the golden-outline of a squiddie passes throught him...the scene I'm talking about is at time 2:07 in the trailer. Just a theory, nothing more.
My theory on the Merovingian is and always has been this:
He is not a rogue program. He is the first "One" created by the Matrix. He was once human but is now part of the system. He is the original.
TheArchitect
10-01-2003, 03:38 PM
Aye, but...
If he is part of the system, a) he has to be plugged in or b) he has to be a program. In both of those cases, a reset would probably wipe his memory.
In the words of the Oracle, "It is a pickle, no doubt about it."
Why do you assume a reset automatically "wipes" everything??
The vampires were leftovers from a previous version of The Matrix. They apparently survived several resets.
TheArchitect
10-01-2003, 03:43 PM
I dunno...I guess that thought entered my mind during the conversation with The Architect (which, by the way, looks strikingly similar to Colonel Sanders, in my opinion.) Don't have any real basis for it...so I guess you may be correct.
Also, consider how the reset happens...
The One merges himself with the system, correct?
What happens to The One then? What if some part of his consciousness survives and becomes a permanent resident in the system, IE the Merovingian.
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 04:12 PM
My question about that is what happened to the other five ones.
What if they're in League with the Merovigian, Wouldn't a Five On One, er One fight be awesome.
If the Merovingian is the original "One" then I'd rather have him be the only other "One" to survive. Maybe because he is the original, he found a way, and the subsequent "One's" were just absorbed into the sytem as intended.
crappertay
10-01-2003, 04:30 PM
All this is irrelevant in the face of the real mystery posed in the original movie;
"What's really gonna fry your noodle later, is would you have still broken it if I hadn't said anything."
Well...
Still I ask again the neglected question; THEORIES ON SERAPH
Like the Oracle and the Architect, he is simply a very powerful program who was a part of building the original matrix. A counterpart of the Oracle perhaps.
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 04:33 PM
I don't know if theirs much their. He's a bodyguard program.
I think its REAL likely that the oricale dies early on in this film. She probably tells Seraph to help Morpheus and Trinity break Neo out of Club Hell.
Hayzen
10-01-2003, 04:33 PM
People who post .bmp files should be strung up by their toes...
Hayzen
10-01-2003, 04:39 PM
Why do you think the Merovingian is an original "one"? Nothing in the movie even hinted toward that.
The One merges himself with the system, correct?
No. The special code he carries will be disseminated back into the Matrix, not Neo himself.
crappertay
10-01-2003, 06:05 PM
Merovingian may not a a One, but obviously has some direct connection to The One(s) as he makes a comment about Neo being as weak as his predecessors in Reloaded or something like that.
Taln Hess
10-01-2003, 07:48 PM
Seraph glows gold because he's a rogue program - not part of the Matrix... I'm betting if we had seen the twins or the Merovingian they would be gold as well.
People who post .bmp files should be strung up by their toes...
:rolleyes , Care to explain?
crappertay
10-01-2003, 08:23 PM
They take about 3 weeks to load on a dial-up connection coz they're so damn BIG in terms of memory usage!!!!!!!
TheArchitect
10-01-2003, 08:38 PM
Bitmaps...heh...big...heh heh...I dunno...
Originally posted by crappertay
They take about 3 weeks to load on a dial-up connection coz they're so damn BIG in terms of memory usage!!!!!!!
Then you should look into upgrading to broadband.:D
crappertay
10-01-2003, 08:54 PM
I have, others don't :p
TheArchitect
10-01-2003, 09:13 PM
It's funny how I am suddenly having all these ideas about the movie...
I pose a question that many will find stupid, and possibly even offensive...my question is: What is Neo really ISN'T the One?
Many of you are thinking "That is proposterous!" but go with me for a second...
In the first matrix, the Oracle told Neo that he was not the One. Now, granted there is a lot of evidence against this, all of her other prediction for Neo came true. She told Neo that he would have to make a choice between himself living and letting Morpheous die, or letting himself die to save Morpheous. Neo, as we all know, chose the second option, and saved Morpheous. Now, to most of our recollections, Neo didn't die..or did he? Remember when Smith shot him as he entered that room at the end? He DID die...he was just brought back to life...so MAYBE the Oracle telling Neo he is not the One is the truth? I dunno...just trying to pose some interesting questions that I believe are worth examining...
Please, no flames...argue if you like, just no name calling...
Evil Dead Junkie
10-01-2003, 09:54 PM
You know I've considered this too and I don't think its true. Two reasons...
1. Morpheous said that The Oracle told him exactly what he needed to hear. She might just have been giving Neo some guidance, Remember, "What really will cook your noodle is if you still would've broken it if I hadn't said anything" I think she sensed that Neo needed some self doubt to become the One.
2. The Oracle in Reloaded said "Because you are The One" :D
TheArchitect
10-01-2003, 10:08 PM
Heh heh...fergot about that whole part before the Smith fight...I love watching that fight scene, ecspecially the part when he busts out from the bottom of the pile of Agent Smith's and tosses the Smith he is holding into a big collection of them (you know what I'm talking about?) IF you listen, you can hear a bowling-pins-being-hit-by-a-bowling-ball sound when they collide...it is hilarious...
Anyways...on to the questions!!!
Question 1: In the Revolutions trailer, who are those people that send Neo flying into a wall in the pure-white subway station? (and I do think that is Neo being hit...obviously it could be a body double because the coat and the hairstyle is the same...you can see the dudes face and you can tell it's not Neo's face, but the coat and hairstyle kind of reinforce, to me, that it is Neo) Could they possibly be the other "One's"? The movies never said anything about their appearance, so they could be an older man, a woman, even a child...I wonder...
Question 2: Also, is the Oracle REALLY the mother of the Matrix? I know that is what Neo assumes, but remember...The Architect gives that sarcastic "Please." remark after he says the oracle, so maybe she isn't the mother of the matrix? I wonder...
Originally posted by crappertay
I have, others don't :p
I retract my previous statement from your direction.:)
B1ade Runner
10-02-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by TheArchitect
Question 2: Also, is the Oracle REALLY the mother of the Matrix? I know that is what Neo assumes, but remember...The Architect gives that sarcastic "Please." remark after he says the oracle, so maybe she isn't the mother of the matrix? I wonder...
I took that to be more of a "duh!" than anything else, but it is possible.
TheArchitect
10-02-2003, 01:13 AM
In case ya'll can't tell, I'm a gigantic matrix-freak... :S
There is a theory about Reloaded that I am going to investigate...I'll post what it is if I find it to be true.
EDIT: Eh...nevermind...I was going to count how many people are on Zion's council, but theres only 12...6 males and 6 females...I was going to say that the Council of Zion could have been the 24 people freed from the Matrix to rebuild Zion after it was destroyed, but I guess that theory is out the window. Still formulating other theories though.
Also, I noticed something kind of funny...when Neo is talking with the Oracle on Reloaded, there is a bit of graffiti that says "ONE" on the fence in the background at a certain camera angle...but later, when Agent Smith enters (same camera angle) the "ONE" sign is not there anymore...I dunno...just thought it'd be funny to tell about that...
ONLY 13 DAYS TILL RELOADED IS ON DVD! WOOHOO!!!!! (Of course, I have it already, so HA!) :P
RealBored
10-03-2003, 04:46 PM
Admin NoteThanks for dropping by but leaving links in your first post with nothing else said, is spam.
If you would like to actually share your opinions please, jump back in.
crappertay
10-05-2003, 11:38 AM
Oh shit.
I just completed more of Enter The Matrix.
Ghost's conversation with the Oracle about how she came back in a different form has just confused matters further?!?!
Is Neo the Merovingian and Persephone's love-child?!?!?
WTF??
MRPween
10-06-2003, 07:55 AM
woooh - that enter a whole world of thought I had never come into before....
If a couple have a child in the matrix is it:
a) Automatically assigned a child from the correct genetic make up so it looks right
b) a fabrication of the matrix
c) Created in reality from the cells of those two people, ie they really have a child.
What happens if a rogue program impregnates someone...
Mind ... going... brain ...over.. load
garfield hates mondays
10-06-2003, 08:38 AM
Matrix speculation makes me dizzy...
*THUD*
:lol, you're not the only one.
phenotype31
10-08-2003, 09:18 AM
In order to not become insane, and I'm not saying anyone here is. But you guys kind of are. Which is not exactly what I'm saying, but you take it any way you want.
Anyways, on to my solution to this "prediction predicament."
All you have to do is throw out the following theories/predictions about Revolutions and you'll be on firmer ground, thus enabling you to properly function day to day.
1.) I predict that Neo and Agent Smith will have a huge kick ass battle. And it will be raining.
2.) I predict that Morpheus is a stubborn bastard who still believes in the One.
3.) I predict that Link will have a few funny lines and reactions to situations.
4.) I predict that Neo will use the "mind ****aroo" trick on the RL machines.
5.) I predict that the machines will invade Zion. The humans may die trying to defend their home, but they'll give the machines hell before they do.
6.) I predict that Persephone will be hot, but not nearly naked enough.
7.) The last line of the movie will be a close up of Neo saying "Whoa!"
garfield hates mondays
10-08-2003, 09:55 AM
good predictions! my brain hurts much less now...
DJ Superjay
10-10-2003, 10:23 AM
This theory is in support of the original prediction by Taln Hess (forgive me if that's not right!). I've been reading all of your posts, and I think there may be some very good evidence to support the AGREEMENT theory. Neo may be planning to eradicate SMITH from the MATRIX in exchange for the possibility of returning.....you ready...THE SUN! I've pondered this for a while, but the last 3 frames of the trailer (those wachowski's are so clever THREE frames...everything has a purpose!) we see what appears to be the Nebuchadnezzar flying in complete daylight with a perfect view of the mid-morning moon behind it!! Now, granted, this could be a simulation, a dream, or any number of random shots, BUT, it also gives a very clear indication that the desert of the real may one day again become our home.
Originally posted by TheArchitect
I pose a question that many will find stupid, and possibly even offensive...my question is: What is Neo really ISN'T the One?
Haven't we already determined that in fact there IS NO ONE??? That in reality, the silly prophecy is nothing but another form of control and THE ONE nothing but a machine contrivance where they breed a human to help serve their own ends?
Hey DJ Superjay! Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you posting after reading through all our hot air! :)
DJ Superjay
10-10-2003, 03:28 PM
Thanks, glad 2 be here. I was also thinking (this is not a revolutions prediction, but a complaint), in part 1 Neo realizes he's the one and fights agent smith with very little effort. In part 2, for some reason he's back to the same hand-to-hand BS? I was figuring after walking THROUGH a guy he'd be squishing people's heads and ripping out digital hearts at LEAST!?! I honestly thought he wouldn't NEED to fight anymore, someone throws a punch, and he just stops it...or he could "tell" the matrix that his body is the durability of titanium, and then the agents would hit him and hurt THEIR hands. Just some things they never address with consideration the limits of Neo's "unlimited" powers. Also, what's with the flying. Why can't he just BE at the next place. If the matrix existed all these concerns would need to be addressed, however if once Neo realized he was the one, and just thought everyone free and that was it, well that would just be a crappy movie now wouldn't it!?! Peace
crappertay
10-10-2003, 03:42 PM
The whole thing about Neo being The One is that he ISN'T the original human born within the Matrix - he was the only one capable of remaking the Matrix as he chose. Morpheus establishes in the original that rules cannot be broken but can be bent. Normal humans have limitations as to how much their brain can accept that The Matrix is not real, Neo does not. The only reason he didn't die in the original is that he was awakened to the fact that The Matrix isn't real, therefore the bullet couldn't really kill him.
Teleporting would be changing the matrix, flying is merely accepting that there is no gravity.
Same with bullets, he's merely manipulating their kinetic energy, he's not doing a T2 and morphing them into a lead samurai sword...
Giving himself the durability of titanium is changing the matrix, moving quickly is accepting that.
This explains why Smith has exited the Matrix and has taken over Bane. Neo is near impossible to kill within the Matrix... but in the real world, real world rules apply, so it is easier to get to him and kill him for real.
DJ Superjay
10-10-2003, 04:00 PM
Wow, you know I actually never thought of WHY Smith went into that guy...thanks for mentioning that, I just accepted it face-value as a cool "trick" he did, a way to get around the limitations of the matrix. That was insightful. But on the other note, accepting the information you've been given (ie, the matrix isn't real, some rules can be bent, others can be broken) at face value is childish. For Neo to just blindly accept EVERYthing Morpheus tells him about the REAL world, the machines, life, anything would be a mistake. How can Morpheus possibly comprehend what Neo is/is not capable of with his feeble human intellect? Shoot, he doesn't know what HE'S capable. The only reasone he believes that the ONE has the powers of the one, is because it was told to him. He could probably learn to do it too. The way it's being described it is an anomoly. Maybe someone else's brain could create the same anomly...at any rate, you bring up some very good points, but I'm still not convinced that they've justified against him being able to do whatever he wants! He should have spent a lot more time finding out just what he could do inside the matrix. There is no spoon, there is no gravity, there are no agents, there is no war, there is no freedom, when does it stop?
crappertay
10-11-2003, 01:45 PM
Here's an interesting read;
Clicky (http://www.filmhobbit.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1344)
It's an old HNN story we ran way back in May 2001 about a leaked possible storyline for Reloaded. While obviously not the finished article it shows a little bit more of what the Wachowski's had planned originally and how it has evolved into the Reloaded/Revolutions of now.
Obviously the virii was rewritten in as an initial single entity - Smith, which has become it's own self contained storyline, rather than a replacement for the standard agents as seemingly originally planned.
Cool what you find in a random rake....
I gotta say I was a little disappointed with the ending of the burly brawl. At first it was really cool with Neo fighting the hundreds of Smiths but Neo running err flying away was weak. At some point Neo should have said 'enough of this crap' and stepped it up to the next level, something along the lines of the final fight in The Matrix where he jumps inside Smith.
It would have been cool if he jumped into code mode and saw that the Smiths were now different. Seeing that Smith was now a rogue program and not a controllable part of the Matrix, Neo would go 'Oh Shit!' and run away.
I was also thinking about how Neo and Smith's encounter affected each other, and how this helps explain how Smith has inhabited Bane. Smith has gained some human quality from Neo as well as being corrupted into a rogue program.
What did Neo get out of the deal? He could have gained some of the rogue program abilities. This should conceivably give Neo some ability to be seperated from the Matrix while existing within it, like a rogue program. He is kind of a human rogue already. This could also make him different from The One's that came before him and add a monkey wrench into the Architect's plan for The One.
Also as Smith is now able to bring himself into the real world. Shouldn't Neo be able to bring a bit of the Matrix with him into the real world as well. Maybe he could jack in to the Matrix at will instead of being hard-wired in like other humans.
Is this what happened when he zapped the sentinels?
He did reach a part of the machine mind outside the Matrix in dealing with The Architect, perhaps he was able to change a bit of programming for the sentinels.
Maybe Neo is now a rogue program outside of the Matrix, within the machine mind?
Maybe thats why he is in a coma as his mind is struggling to accept and deal with this new level of existance and abilities.
Thanks for letting me indulge in some woulda/shoulda/coulda's and speculations hehe.
neo2083
10-20-2003, 03:23 PM
I have some predictions which make alot of sense but surprisingly no one has touched upon. At the end of Reloaded we get the ultimate cliffhanger when Neo somehow is able to stop the squiddies dead in their tracks in the "Real World". Now assuming that the Wachowski brothers are not trying to say that humans have developed super-human powers in "Real Life" I see only one alternative that makes sense. I think that there is more than one matrix. I think that the matrix we have seen so far is something contained within another matrix. That matrix is what we see as the "Real World".
If this is all correct then is raises alot more questions. My first would be whats really going on, because if the "Real World" is really a second layer in the Marix Hierarchy then that means the machines in the part of the matrix are also not "Real". The second layer to the matrix would also explain why Smith was able to "copy" himslef onto Bane and control him in the "Real World".
On another note, in response to some of the other posts I have a few ideas to add to them. There was one about the "Ones" who came before the "Neo" we see in the movie. An idea was raised about maybe Merovigian being the first one and how the previous ones might have looked different than this "One". I dont't thank any of thats able to be true because if you remember when Neo went to the architect on the TV screens the reactions from the previous "Ones" was shown to each question/point that was made by the architect. Every screen shows the "One" looking exactly like NEo himself and not Merovingian or anyone else.
I hope this gives you all, my fellow matrix lovers, something to think about and discuss.
crappertay
10-20-2003, 03:29 PM
if you remember when Neo went to the architect on the TV screens the reactions from the previous "Ones" was shown to each question/point that was made by the architect
That wasn't the other Ones, that was all Neo's possible responses. The Archictect himself says there have only been six incarnations of the Matrix INCLUDING Neo.
The whole issue through the movie is about choice or the lack of so it only makes sense that those are all of Neo's possible counters.
There is mention by The Architect of him being the Father of the Matrix and a woman being the Mother. The Oracle is undoubtably the mother as her foresight would make sense with her supposedly being involved in learning about the human psyche or something (I forget the exact words).
Then in Enter The Matrix, the Oracle tells Ghost that the Merovingian was sold the termination code for her program and that is how she has been changed. Her code was sold, we are told because the Merovingian is searching for a child and that the mother and father are trying to protect that child. The Oracle says the child is very important to everyone's survival.
Who is this child? Is it Neo? If so, who are these mother and father figures?
I don't think the real world is another layer of the Matrix. The Wachowski's would risk alienating many people by trying to be too smart for their own good. Rather I tend to agree with those who say that Neo's new powers come from some kind of "wireless" connection to some element of the Matrix - hence how he needs to be plugged in to go confront Smith "inside" the Matrix but is clearly using this "new unplugged ability" to contact the machine mainframe (as shown in the trailer)
Bordick
10-20-2003, 03:39 PM
After getting the DVD of Reloaded and watching the first 2 back to back, I never realized it but the Architect's TV screens are in the first one. Just thought I'd like to add that.
My predictions for Revolutions:
CGI
Exposition
Kung-FU
that's about it.
P.S.
Welcome neo2083!
TheKid
10-21-2003, 12:13 AM
hmm... think about this one. Maybe Neo isn't "the one" but someone else is. Personally i think that THE KID will have a much larger role in revolutions and might be the one as he is the only one to ever get himself out of the matrix. And just by that has something special in him. He jacked out of the matrix without help. ;)
TheArchitect
10-21-2003, 01:08 AM
There won't be a Matrix-within-a-matrix because:
1) It's too predictable.
and
2) It raises the theory that there could be an infinite number of Matrixes (Matrices? I dunno).
As for the Oracle being the mother of the matrix, I'm not sure on that...while it is possible, I took that 'Please...' the Archie gave Neo after he said 'The Oracle...' to be somewhat sarcastic, as if he was wrong...that's my opinion anyhow, and I could be wrong
I'm still standing by my theory that Neo will bring a gradual peace between the machines and humans...either that, or he'll get the machines to stop attacking the humans by getting rid of Smith.
crappertay
10-21-2003, 09:02 AM
I feel The Architect's distainful "Please" is more contempt at the title, statusand regard the humans hold for her, rather than a denial of her being the one he is refering to.
Yeah, I always took the "Please" to be a slam on Neo as if to say it was so obvious and easy to figure out that the Oracle was the mother of the Matrix he shouldn't have even had to articulate it.
Evil Dead Junkie
10-21-2003, 11:06 AM
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=16340
Evil Dead Junkie
10-21-2003, 11:14 AM
Slight Spoiler
"A Matrix inside of a Matrix? Luckily for us the Wachowski's are better than that"
THANK YOU JESUS
Evil Dead Junkie
10-21-2003, 11:15 AM
From an AICN review...
"A Matrix inside of a Matrix? Luckily for us the Wachowski's are better than that"
THANK JESUS!!
After Harry's idiotic review of Reloaded, I refuse to read anything AICN has to say on the subject of The Matrix. That was literally the worst movie review I have ever read by anyone anywhere.
crappertay
10-21-2003, 11:30 AM
The second review is the only one I'm actually prepared to read.
The first one wasn't worth the effort of sending in.
The third contains heavy spoilers? Well what's the ****ing point of that. Kinda defeats everyone's second-guessing to get TOLD what happenes before going to see it.
This isn't Star Wars 3 - we don't KNOW how it's going to end beforehand...
crappertay
10-21-2003, 11:33 AM
From Film Hobbit:
"An AICN review inside a forum? Thankfully we're beter than that."
:p
I've got Matrix fever.
Hey!
If anyone talks spoilers, they better give a BIG warning because I don't want it ruined for me.
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