The Passion of the Christ - POST WHENCE THOU SEES THUS

[Bordick]

<IMG SRC=http://www.filmhobbit.com/moviereviews/movie-images/news/reporters/posters/passion.jpg height=250 align=right border=1><FONT SIZE=4 color=Chocolate><B>The Passion of the Christ</B></FONT>

<B>Judgement Day:</B> Feb. 25th, 2004


<B>Apostles:</B> Jim Caviezel, Monica Bellucci
<B>The Man Upstairs:</B> Mel Gibson
<B>3 Wise Men:</B> Mel Gibson, Stephen McEveety, Bruce Davey
<B>Transcription:</B> Mel Gibson, Benedict Fitgerald


<U><B>DIVINE CRITIQUE</B></U>

"It is as it was." - John Paul II (Allegedly)

"We all saw Janet Jackson’s hideous breast at the Superbowl and now it’s time to repent. A trip to see The Passion is a whole lot easier than spending every Sunday in church." - Joshua Tyler (http://www.filmhobbit.com/cgi-bin/movies/movies.cgi?action=showreview&review=thepassion)


<B>SPEAK FORTH WHENCE THOU HAS SEENITH THUS, DOWN YONDER!!</B>

[Into]

I think I might actually see this. It's catching my interest a bit more now for some reason..

[garfield hates mondays]

can't wait....

[Josh]

My plan is to see it Thursday.

I'm a little nervous that the rapture might happen while I'm watching it.

I think I might get a clever bumpersticker about the rapture just in case.

[phenotype31]

Seeing it Thursday in style. With food delivered to my cushy leather seat.

Reviews are starting to come in and critics seem to like this film, for whatever that's worth to people. Ebert & Roeper reviewed it last night and gave it 2 big thumbs up. I can't find the review online anywhere currently, there's just a blurb on their website saying they'll review it.

[NotSoSecretAgent]

They called it the most important religious film ever. And the best one.

I'm going to see it, but I'm not sure when.

[garfield hates mondays]

I should probably order the tickets in advance, huh?

[Bordick]

I'll be there Wednesday 2:00 pm.......yes I'm actually going to a movie theatre to see a movie...how shocking.

[Into]

I'll probably wait until it's been out a few weeks to see it, if I see it at all.

[garfield hates mondays]

my mom is making me go to church on Wednesday. damnit.

[crappertay]

Smeagol hast been smote with irony!!! :lol

Love the Review Quotes Bordick! :D

[Matt]

Originally posted by smeagol wants fishess
my mom is making me go to church on Wednesday. damnit.

WORDS OF WISDOM!!

[Bordick]

Originally posted by Tay
Love the Review Quotes Bordick! :D
;) Nothing like a little levity :)

[Ruby]

I plan on seeing it Wednesday afternoon. Provided that I don't have a last minute job interview setup. :p

[NotSoSecretAgent]

What I'm curious is whether or not the film can be enjoyed, even if you don't "believe?" That's my...dillema.

[Into]

Originally posted by NotSoSecretAgent
What I'm curious is whether or not the film can be enjoyed, even if you don't "believe?" That's my...dillema.

Ditto.

I don't believe in any religion, so I hope that if I do go to see the film, that it can be enjoyed by the non-religious.

[NotSoSecretAgent]

Originally posted by Intolerance
Ditto.

I don't believe in any religion, so I hope that if I do go to see the film, that it can be enjoyed by the non-religious.

Someone said that it can. But I think it's just going to be one of those things you have to experience for yourself, no matter your viewpoint.

[crappertay]

<center>
Just keep repeating

It's only a movie!
It's only a movie!
It's only a movie!
It's only a movie!
</center>
:blat

[Cogito]

17 posts in this thread -- I thought the film had opened already! Came a-clickin' to see what you thought of it; imagine my dissapointment.

[Into]

Originally posted by NotSoSecretAgent
Someone said that it can. But I think it's just going to be one of those things you have to experience for yourself, no matter your viewpoint.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. I kind of want to see it, but the non-religious part of me is telling me not to waste my time on something that I don't have belief, nor interest in.

[Ruby]

Just came back from the 11 am showing.

It was everything I anticipated the movie to be. Brutal yet compassionate…

The torture scene was amazing. It made me cringe several times…especially when they starting hitting him with the metal claw thing.

It was disheartening to watch Mary’s anguish. She had to witness her son being slowly torn a part and killed… knowing she couldn’t do a damn thing about it.

But the most intense scene in the movie was the crucifixion…watching the blood poor down the end of the nails after they were hammered into his hand…then when the cross itself was being raised.

No, you do not have to be religious in anyway to appreciate this film. I don’t consider myself a Christian in any way. In fact, I’ve begun studying buddhism recently. However, I must admit, it did make me question my religious beliefs…or lack of I should say.

[Into]

No, you do not have to be religious in anyway to appreciate this film. I don’t consider myself a Christian in any way. In fact, I’ve begun studying buddhism recently. However, I must admit, it did make me question my religious beliefs…or lack of I should say.

Good to hear. I think I'll see it after all. I've been contemplating it today. I seriously doubt that it will make me question my lack of beliefs, though. It's not easy to do that.

[phenotype31]

If this makes me question my religious beliefs when years of study and theological debate haven't, I will be greatly surprised. And in awe of Mel Gibson.

I look forward to it being good though.

[ReservoirSean]

I am still at a loss for words after seeing this. It was just so brutal. so intense. I cringed repeatidly. The violence was just so real, many people couldn't handle it in the theater. There were tears coming from almost everyones eyes when it ended and nobody left until half way through the credits, and even then it was still dead silence. my friend is very religious and i think the graphic images the movie showed were far too much for him. At one point he was shaking furiously and my other friend and i had to snap him out of it. we waited to make sure he was alright and asked him if he wanted us to leave. he said no and that he'd just rest his head and sleep a bit. also i read a report somewhere that in one of the screening somebody died from a heart attack during one of the screenings. although, it's not proven it was caused by the movie itself.

it was great. but i am still in awe of what i saw.

[Cogito]

Very cool to hear your responses. ReservoirSean, your religious friend's reaction sounds a bit alarming, but from an unemotional point of view, it is impressive that the movie can pull this off, though...

Yes, a woman died of a heart-attack, but as you said, but whether that was from the impact of the movie or not, wasn't said. The worst thing about that stuff, was that the MSNBC cretin who was interviewing the doctor who had helped the poor woman, kept trying to sensationalize it, and make it sound like it had been some kind of a religious experience -- while the doctor was being completely straight about it... News ancor kept going on about "Doesn't it make you think though -- I'm not saying anything supernatural happened here -- but doesn't it make you think though, it being Ash Wednesday, and she's watching the Passion of the Christ, and dies?" but the doctor just kept it straight and said that well, you never know when you're gonna go... But the reporter kept at it, several times... Really pathetic. Media just keeps getting worse.

[Bordick]

The only freaky thing I found about it, was the ending. Me & Brody were joking about it the other day about how the whole "on the third day he rose again" could be spun to make it like a sequel tease ending. When it turned out that there was something similar on the end....I couldn't help but raise an eyebrow.

[Into]

You're joking.

[NotSoSecretAgent]

Originally posted by Bordick
The only freaky thing I found about it, was the ending. Me & Brody were joking about it the other day about how the whole "on the third day he rose again" could be spun to make it like a sequel tease ending. When it turned out that there was something similar on the end....I couldn't help but raise an eyebrow.

What is Jesus on the cross then they zoom in on his face, he looks at the camera and winks? That'd be hilarious.

[Bordick]

It's a PWYSI thread....now that it's open, all bets are off.


and Notso.......you'll know it when you see it.

[Into]

Originally posted by NotSoSecretAgent
What is Jesus on the cross then they zoom in on his face, he looks at the camera and winks? That'd be hilarious.

*cough*Freddy Vs. Jason*cough*

[moviegirl11]

What is Jesus on the cross then they zoom in on his face, he looks at the camera and winks? That'd be hilarious.


HA! I dont want to laugh at that comment but its hilarious. Gave me a flashback of freddy vs Jason.

Seeing it tonight w/ Phenotype. Got reserved VIP seating at the Loews 34th street theater. Looking forward to it!

As a Catholic I'm very curious to see it from a religious perspective and had planned to see it opening week but now with all this hype I'm even more excited.

[garfield hates mondays]

laughs at movieGIRLS title

sorry:(

[Josh]

Just got back.

Hmm

Well all the anti-semetic talk is pretty rediculous.

That's for sure.

It's an interesting movie.

Could have been better.

But good.

More to come.

[moviegirl11]

Well I saw the movie tonight.

Honestly it was an excellent film. I can understand why people would dwell on the violence but I personally got more caught up in how Jesus was portrayed throughout the film. If I had to describe it in two words I'd say horrifying and beautiful...

With regards to the anti-Jew aspect... well, I didn't see anything in the film that hasn't been portrayed in the bible. The romans can take the blame for seeing that Jesus be suffiently tortured before and during his crucifiction. That much is evident in the film.

I would recommend that people see this movie regardless of whether or not they're religious. I have always valued the imporance of religous education for everyone as it encourages understanding and a fair level of tolerence... at least that's what I got out of a well rounded religious education growing up.

Passions captures to spirit if Christianity as it should be celebrated. Jesus' main message teaches forgiveness and compassion and I think if all Christians could embrace that and live by it, the religion as a whole would not be disliked as much as it is by so many non-christians.

Other side notes on the movie (before I stray too far off topic) is that the cinematography was absolutely beautiful... almost poetic. The score fit perfectly with the movie. The acting was brilliant. As for the subtitles.... I barely noticed them. In fact, the story's told more by images than it is through words.

Yes there is violence and there were a couple of times where I needed to turn my head away but this movie is in no way a horror movie in that sense.

The only thing I wasn't crazy about was the devil stuff... though I do understand Mel's intentions... it was just a bit too artsy for my taste.

Thats all.

[phenotype31]

Good movie. Just absolutely gorgeous. And good grief that was a wonderful score.

I went into the theater with my system of beliefs and left with them not even budged. But if that's the point of the movie, then something's wrong. I'll allow that it can be (and has been) a side effect.

I just felt it was powerful and beautiful. The violence is more brutal not because of the numerous acts in the film, but because of the context of it. I'm sure there are other films that are more violent out there.

The resurrection was ok. I'd prefer the movie to end on the shot of Mary holding Jesus and then go to black. Instead he did this Terminator thing, where Jesus is kneeling in the cave and then stands up and walks out. The shot was cool, but I actually thought "Terminator" for a brief moment. Yeah, I'm gonna burn.

Oh, and I can see where the anti-semetic accusations are coming from. It makes sense. But then, don't these people have to blame the source material for that just as much? I'm not interested in going into a debate about the Jews vs. Christianity over the past 2 millenia, but sometimes you do **** that stirs up bad blood. Fortunately Gibson made a beautiful movie.

4 out of 5 stars, rings, fingers, or whatever.

[Josh]

<A HREF=http://www.filmhobbit.com/cgi-bin/movies/movies.cgi?action=showreview&review=thepassion>Review be here</A>

[NotSoSecretAgent]

Originally posted by FilmHobbit
<A HREF=http://www.filmhobbit.com/cgi-bin/movies/movies.cgi?action=showreview&review=thepassion>Review be here</A>

That's the most respectable review for this movie that I've read, Hobbit. Nicely done. I haven't seen it yet, but I imagine my thoughts will be somewhere near yours.

[Into]

Yeah, well written review, Hobbit. I still have not seen it, but am still looking foward to it. All the hype and controversy has got me a little curious, I must say. But, that's not the only reason I want to see it.

[Bordick]

We all saw Janet Jackson’s hideous breast at the Superbowl and now it’s time to repent. A trip to see The Passion is a whole lot easier than spending every Sunday in church.

:lol Amen

[Josh]

Pheno, I don't know how you can see why people would find anti-semetism in this movie. I'd be interested in hearing your examples.

For ever Jew who does something horrible, there's another one who does something great.

Yeah, the Pharisees deliver him up... but then there's the big strong guy who helps him carry his cross (and in fact half carries him).

It's rediculous. I'm ashamed and dismayed at people's persistance in looking for hate where there is none.

[Matt]

absolutely, a wonderfully written review, Josh.

[Josh]

Thank you.

[garfield hates mondays]

very nice hobbit. most sensible review ive read so far :)

[Evil Dead Junkie]

Truly a great film I have no doubt It'll be on my top ten. And I have to say Movie Girl the depiction of Satan was one of the high points in the movie for me, the scene where Judas is hounded to his death (shudders) but just awesome movie.

[Josh]

The scene where Judas is hounded to his death...

Hm.

It is interesting. I'm not sure how biblical it is, but it was interesting.

My only real complaint with it is that it felt a little out of place in the context of the rest of the movie. Didn't feel like it fit.

Actually, my favorite thing about the movie were the little flashbacks... which unfortunantly were so short they were almost non-existant. Give me more of those! Those brief flashes had greatness in them if only they were longer.

I also loved the resurrection. Jesus strikes a Marvelesc hero pose, and you see the holes in his hands as he rises to do great things.

[phenotype31]

As long as one Jew in the movie betrays Christ, or doesn't help him, or does anything to help him get crucified....then there's anti-semetism. Nothing that I feel is intentionally hateful, just not pro-semetism.

I never claimed it was a warranted response to protest and hate monger. But if a bunch of Romans decided to protest the movie and make the same claims, I would say that they are justified in doing so. They're morons, but justified.

There's a lot of history behind why some jews are protesting the film. I don't know what I can say that won't be offensive, but it's pretty retarded.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

I'm sorry but I think that is the single dumbest thing I've ever heard. Holy ****.

[Josh]

So if anyone ever makes a movie where any Jew EVER does something bad that is Anti-Semitic?????

That's a pretty broad definition.

Jews are people too. They do bad things just as much as christians, muslims, hindus, or anyone else.

There are also very positive portrayals of Jews in the film doing fantastic things.

[Matt]

Originally posted by phenotype31
As long as one Jew in the movie betrays Christ, or doesn't help him, or does anything to help him get crucified....then there's anti-semetism. Nothing that I feel is intentionally hateful, just not pro-semetism.

I never claimed it was a warranted response to protest and hate monger. But if a bunch of Romans decided to protest the movie and make the same claims, I would say that they are justified in doing so. They're morons, but justified.

There's a lot of history behind why some jews are protesting the film. I don't know what I can say that won't be offensive, but it's pretty retarded.


so If a white guy kills somebody it's automatically racist? black guy? muslim?


That's a pretty flimsy argument. Not to mention wreckless.

[garfield hates mondays]

basically every movie where anything wrong happens is predujice?

Jurassic Park is anti-fat people/ dinosaurs?

Star Wars is anti-asthmatics?

[garfield hates mondays]

PS: I can't spell for **** :lol

[phenotype31]

Yes. If you do something against someone, then that's anti-*insert person*

A scene that shows the jews betraying Christ is not pro-semitism. It simply isn't.

You act like for 2000 years the jews haven't been blamed for this, and are only now coming out to protest.

This is the most retarded reaction to anything I've posted in the few years of being on message boards.

And my statement isn't out of left field. It's true that there is anti-semetic elements to the movie. Since there are, then jews have a right to say they don't like that.

Let's not beat our chests and talk about how great Christianity is and forget some of the **** that's gone down in the name of Christ and God. Some jews haven't forgotten.

It's really not my problem though, since the whole thing is pretty silly.

[garfield hates mondays]

no its anti-christ abusers. only if it implied that all or a majority of jews did this would it be anti semetic.

[Josh]

Pheno, your entire point seems to be that no one should ever show Jews doing anything bad.

That's rediculous.

Bascially, Jews are protesting Christianity then, not the movie?

Also rediculous.

[Into]

I think I'll be seeing this on Sunday before the Oscars.

[Josh]

Originally posted by phenotype31
And my statement isn't out of left field. It's true that there is anti-semetic elements to the movie. Since there are, then jews have a right to say they don't like that.

Let's not beat our chests and talk about how great Christianity is and forget some of the **** that's gone down in the name of Christ and God. Some jews haven't forgotten.

What are the anti-Semitic elements? Lets get specific. Being Anti-Semetic implies a lot more than just showing jews doing bad things. There are lots of movies that show Christians doing bad things... those movies aren't anti-Christian.

Being Anti-Semetic implies that one is unfairly portraying an ENTIRE RACE of people in a negative light. Not that you show a few Jews doing something bad.

And no one has said one word about Christianity, so I'm not sure why you bring that up.

But this is an interesting convo so far :) Nice to hear your viewpoint.

[phenotype31]

I am respectfully declining to respond to this anymore.

Just thought I'd post that instead of leaving it all up in the air.

[garfield hates mondays]

awww come on... fuel the fire.

:lol

[Josh]

Originally posted by phenotype31
I am respectfully declining to respond to this anymore.

Just thought I'd post that instead of leaving it all up in the air.
Dude, you raised the issue, it isn't unreasonable to request specific examples!

This is especially interesting to me because I saw the same movie and see none.

[moviegirl11]

Originally posted by FilmHobbit

Being Anti-Semetic implies that one is unfairly portraying an ENTIRE RACE of people in a negative light. Not that you show a few Jews doing something bad.

I think there might be a misunderstanding between pheno and everyone with regards to the use (or misuse) of the term anti-semetism. I think that Hobbit has the literal use of the word down but pheno's definition is the more socially correct one.

To me, the word "antisemitic" gets thrown around as loosely as the term "homophobic". If someone says something that doesn't protray homosexuality in a positive light, its "homophobic" all of a sudden. If someone portrays jews or even A jew in a negative light they're antisemetic.

So while hobbit is talking about the REAL meaning of the term, pheno is talking about how its more commonly used.

The Jews look bad in this movie. Its part of the story. The Jewish council are "the bad guys". Is the movie antisemetic? I dont think so personally because I actually believe that the story went down as it was portrayed in the movie. But I think I can understand why those who DONT believe in Christ or the story of his life/death might perceive the movie (and the new testament in general) as antisemetic in that it does not favor the Jews.

Its not antisemetic because I didn't feel like there was any intention to promote hatred or disdain towards Jews based on what the council did to Christ 2000 years ago. And even with the lack of intention, I didn't find any evidence in the film that suggested that the Jews be blamed for Christ's death. Anyone who tries to use this movie to further there antisemetic agenda would most likely have had to have gone into the movie with the agenda already in place. Like hobbit said... you walk out with whatever you walked in with.

I think people are blowing the movie way out of proportion with regards to the antisemetism but it wouldn't be the first time that people jumped at the chance to victimize themselves when a movie doesn't portray their "people" in a positive light.


/babbling

[Josh]

See, where I think you're wrong is you say "The Jews look bad in this movie"

That implies that the movie broadly paints the Jewish race in a bad light.

Which is what being anti-Semetic implies.

But how can that be so when there are both positive and negative Jewish portrayals in the film?

SOME Jews look bad in this movie.

SOME Jews also look really good.

An example of them looking bad is the Jewish council delivering up Jesus and backing Pilate into a corner until he has to have him executed.

An example of them looking good is the large Jewish man who is forced to carry Jesus cross... but ends up defending Jesus and helping him, needlessy risking his own life to help someone who is suffering.

You cannot say it makes JEWS LOOK BAD. It shows some Jews doing bad things and it shows some Jews doing good things. It shows some Romans doing horrendous things without conscience, and it shows some Romans regretting what they do.

[moviegirl11]

I meant to say "Jews look bad" and then follow up with the sentence that came next re: the council.

Hobbit, my determination as I stated was that the movie was NOT antisemetic which I think tends to agree with your argument. But thanks for catching my error.

[Josh]

Heck, frankly the only Jews doing really bad things are the Jewish council.

Even the Jewish king Herod lets Jesus go. He's a bit of a drunken jackass, but he does the right thing.

And even among the Pharisees, there are Jews doing the right thing. There are at least two pharisees who object to what is going on and are summarily tossed out by the few railroading Jesus.

In light of all of that, this isn't a movie out to paint the Jewish race in a bad way. You just can't support that, and people arguing that it does must have some sort of agenda.

[moviegirl11]

In light of all of that, this isn't a movie out to paint the Jewish race in a bad way. You just can't support that, and people arguing that it does must have some sort of agenda.

I agree...I even said pretty much the same thing in my post:

Its not antisemetic because I didn't feel like there was any intention to promote hatred or disdain towards Jews based on what the council did to Christ 2000 years ago. And even with the lack of intention, I didn't find any evidence in the film that suggested that the Jews be blamed for Christ's death. Anyone who tries to use this movie to further there antisemetic agenda would most likely have had to have gone into the movie with the agenda already in place. Like hobbit said... you walk out with whatever you walked in with.

So either I'm misinterpreting the argumentative tone in your responses or you're just agreeing with me.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

Hell one of the Jewish high council (in the bible at least) gave Jesus his own tomb that he had bought for himself.

[Josh]

Originally posted by moviegirl11
I agree...I even said pretty much the same thing in my post:



So either I'm misinterpreting the argumentative tone in your responses or you're just agreeing with me.
Adding further to what you said to add even greater weight to your argument.

[phenotype31]

Hobbs. I've discussed theology at length in the past with friends and other people who are very knowledgeable. And I tend to not like to bring that to a place like this. Since the debate will have to turn to theology to continue, that's why I've declined to respond anymore.

I don't feel that this is the place for it. I gave my opinion, and that's going to have to stand. And I'll have to live with everyone thinking I'm an idiot.

Having a Catholic girlfriend, I've not expressed my own thoughts on the subject of religion out of respect for her. And I do the same thing whereever I go now. I have a live and let live policy. That policy has been a bit strained lately, though I'm not sure how much this movie has to do with that.

I saw your dialogue with Cogs and didn't respond for the same reason. But I felt that I should at least comment on what I thought of the movie. Unfortunately, I posted something and got the reaction I did. Maybe I should have done a longer post dealing with all my thoughts, or not posted at all. But what is done is done.

Sorry to offend.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

It's not offending.

Its that the argument doesn't make any sense. At all. By you're logic every movie is racist because every movie has an antagonist.

[crappertay]

I really don't want to fuel the fire of arguement here but having read the discussion I'm with EDJ (:eek) and Hobbit. They have made the point. There's nothing I can't say without repeating their words or saying something that could be taken out of context.

There is no logic there.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

Originally posted by Tay
I'm with EDJ (:eek) and Hobbit.

feck off Matt can get away with that, but you and I agree alot You're at the Dark Side Now:resist

[phenotype31]

I addressed that in my first post though. As I said, maybe I should have written something much longer. But I didn't feel like going farther than "there is a lot of history" behind it all.

My mistake.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

No you seriously haven't addressed it at all, unless your argument was, "Its OK when it happens to everyone except the Jews."

[crappertay]

They invented a concept for "happy-clappy everyone should be portrayed in a good light or the portrayers are evil" type way of working.

They called "political correctness", it lives and breathes today and is the most reprehensible oppressive concept ever.


In Scotland the police force are not allowed to have "black coffee" on their break (it must be refered to as "coffee with no milk or sugar" or similar) as someone severely misguided in a position of power decided it could be conceieved as racist (ie anti-black people). I mean WTF?

This is what you seem to be championing.

[phenotype31]

OK then.

I haven't addressed it at all.

American History X is just as racist as Passion is anti-semetic. They're not. The films are not racist or anti-semetic respectively.

The elements are there. That is all. I could care less how some religious kooks decide to interpret the movie, one way or another. It's a movie, not the Bible.

I said the protests were stupid and unwarranted. That doesn't make them incomprehensible though.

If this is to continue I'd like it pointed out where I said the movie was anti-semetic. And how that leads to this slippery slope.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

Originally posted by phenotype31
As long as one Jew in the movie betrays Christ, or doesn't help him, or does anything to help him get crucified....then there's anti-semetism. Nothing that I feel is intentionally hateful, just not pro-semetism.

.

"As long as one Jew in the movie betrays Christ, or doesn't help him, or does anything to help him get crucified....then there's anti-semetism. "

I'll say it once again. That is truly a horrible arguement.

[crappertay]

Originally posted by phenotype31
As long as one Jew in the movie betrays Christ, or doesn't help him, or does anything to help him get crucified....then there's anti-semetism. Nothing that I feel is intentionally hateful, just not pro-semetism.


You imply your definition of anti-semitism as anything not pro-semitism. Which is wrong.

[phenotype31]

Anti-semitism in the movie.

Doesn't make the movie anti-semetic. That'd be like saying that Edward Norton is a neo nazi because of the role he played, or that Kevin Kline is homosexual simply because of a role he played, ad nauseum. Again I ask you to point to where I've claimed that the movie is anti-semetic, as it was the context of the original question.

It seems you want someone to be the fall guy and argue with.

The question is what could jews possibly be afraid of in this movie? And reflaming the old hatred for the jews by putting on a Passion play is such a thing. Intentions don't dictate reactions, as much as we'd like them to. This movie wasn't made with much more thought of the jews than of the romans, I don't believe. The movie is about tolerance (on that I definately agree with Gibson).

The most intelligent and right on thing in all of this thread is Hobbit's statement in his review, "How you react to it [The Passion of the Christ] depends mostly on what you take in with you."

[crappertay]

Originally posted by Evil Dead Junkie
feck off Matt can get away with that, but you and I agree alot


We'll always have Kill Bill bud! :lol

[Matt]

Okay.. if O.J. Simpson killed his wife and he is portrayed in a movie as the killer. That does not mean the movie has racist qualities.

If A white Christian kills somebody in a movie it doesn't automatically mean the movie is anti white or anti christian.

The same as Passion. If a jewish person is portrayed as hating Jesus and wanting him dead it doesn't make parts of the movie anti semitic. If its the truth it can't be anti semitic. Now whether or not it is true is up to your religion. By that logic you are basically labeling an entire religion as anti semitic. That's just wrong no matter what.

[Matt]

Originally posted by Tay
We'll always have Kill Bill bud! :lol

Tay likes Kill Bill? Time to find a new scottish guy to admire. :lol

[Evil Dead Junkie]

Indeed :lol

and Pheno your argument just gets more and more ludicrous. Its like the people who got all up in arms because that Gay guy was killed by the villian in Braveheart.

Um guys I've got news for you. You know the guy who killed him. HE'S THE ****ING VILLIAN. HE'S SUPPOSED TO DO EVIL THINGS!!!

Anyway back on topic. Having KKK guys in Bad Boys II doesn't make it racist. Having Sam Jackson get killed in Goodfellas doesn't make it racist. Having two white psycopaths in Fargo Doesn't make it racist. And Having one or two evil Jewish guys (who aren't any more evil then any other government.) Sure as hell doesn't make The Passion Racist. Seriously the fact that we're even talking about this blows my mind. American History X WTF. Ed Nortons not someone who the movie wants you to emulate, by the end of the film he's lost everything because of the ideals he's held.

This is Ri God Damned Diculous.

[crappertay]

Originally posted by phenotype31
Anti-semitism in the movie.

Doesn't make the movie anti-semetic.

American History X has an anti-racist agenda

In And Out has a anti-homophobic agenda

The Passion does not have a pro-semitism agenda





And please, stop trying to turn this personal by baiting people with "fall guy" claims.



All films contain elements that may be racist or homophobic or anti-semitic or pro or anti whatever. They're generally called plot elements and character definitions and the movies wouldn't get far without them if they wanted to play their respective stories out.

[phenotype31]

So wait a second. If I remove my confusing caveat, then it'll make more sense?

Because no one asked for clarification before jumping all over my ****.

I coulda been asked, looked over my post, and noticed my mistake. Apologized, reposted, and moved on. I never implied that anti-semetism is anything not pro-semetism, but that could have been easily explained. I'm not comfortable being jumped on just because I say something that isn't accepted by everyone. Disagreed with, yes.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

He meant we'd always have it as a sticking point.

[phenotype31]

Having KKK guys in Bad Boys II doesn't make it racist. Having Sam Jackson get killed in Goodfellas doesn't make it racist. Having two white psycopaths in Fargo Doesn't make it racist. And Having one or two evil Jewish guys (who aren't any more evil then any other government.) Sure as hell doesn't make The Passion Racist.

Oh, so you agree with me?

[crappertay]

Originally posted by Evil Dead Junkie
He meant we'd always have it as a sticking point.

:beer

[Evil Dead Junkie]

No because you're saying that having Jewish Bad Guys make the Passion Anti Sematic.

Either that or the aliens who were posting as you have left, and you're just now joining the conversation.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

:beer

[phenotype31]

I'm gonna buy every one of you ****ers a beer.

Bastards, all of ya! :D

EDJ - I believe we're slowly coming to the conclusion here. I've never claimed the Passion was racist or anti-semetic.

So our argument has been quite amusing, but pointless.

[Josh]

Pheno, no one is jumping all over you, we just think your argument is bad.

I think it stems from your definition of Anti-Semetism being totally wrong... both from a societal and dicionary definition standpoint.

That's all.

[Matt]

LMAO. this argument is getting absurd.

Let's just agree to disagree (or agree to make fun of pheno. :lol just kidding buddy)

[crappertay]

The arguement has become skewed.

Pheno you accuse The Passion of having anti-semetic elements to it, not of being anti-semetic as a whole or in message. What you are doing is using the same fuzzy logic all the detractors are using, which is using a phrase out of context for your own means thus creating an arguement you aren't really making.

The fact is there are no anti-semetic "elements" to the film. There are jews who do bad things. This is not anti-semetic as anti-semetic is bad things being DONE to jews. That's like saying a film contains racist "elements" because it portrays black people as doing bad things not as bad things being DONE to black people.

[Evil Dead Junkie]

Originally posted by phenotype31


EDJ - I believe we're slowly coming to the conclusion here. I've never claimed the Passion was racist or anti-semetic.



Somewhere Pheno is raising his hand and saying "These aren't the Droids you're looking for" :lol

[Matt]

Originally posted by Evil Dead Junkie
Somewhere Pheno is raising his hand and saying "These aren't the Droids you're looking for" :lol

:rofl good one EDJ

[Josh]

Phen doesn't even really believe it is anti-Semetic and has said as much, so I'm not even sure what we are arguing over at this point. heh.

But there has to be someone whose seen it who does think so, and I'm sure they'll post at some point to explain it to us. I'd love to hear it because I can't see it.

[phenotype31]

The fact is there are no anti-semetic "elements" to the film. There are jews who do bad things. This is not anti-semetic as anti-semetic is bad things being DONE to jews. That's like saying a film contains racist "elements" because it portrays black people as doing bad things not as bad things being DONE to black people.

And thus, we hit upon the crux of our problem here.

You see, I was under the assumption that I was being questioned on how people can see the film as anti-semetic (and then I was constantly accused of stating the film itself is anti-semetic). While not believing the movie is, I said that I can understand how some people might interpret it that way. The elements of the film that portray Jews in a bad light, could cause some loopy christians to begin persecuting jews again (which is what I believe some people are afraid of). That could make the movie itself anti-semetic if it happened and that was the intention of the film. Not only has Gibson said that is not the case, but anyone viewing the film would come to that conclusion. Any semi-sentient person at least.

There are elements of the film that can be construed to fuel anti-semitism, if the viewer goes into the film expecting that then that's what they'll see (as hobbit said, it's what you take in with you). Passion plays almost always cause this kind of uproar, and in the past jews have been killed following them. They're concerned, overreacted, and made Mel a very rich man with free promotion of his film. It's all silly, IMO.

Oh, and after thinking about it for awhile, I still think the movie is damn good. Sometimes my opinion on a film will change as I think on it more, but this has stayed pretty constant.

[phenotype31]

I'd be happy to make another screenname. Sadly, I have trolled before on other boards.

Passionateaboutjews2463.

[crappertay]

:batman


:lol


I'll change it back, don't worry, I'm just playin' with ya ;)

[phenotype31]

Question...do scripts work here? Like if I put one in my sig, would it work? I didn't want to try it without finding out first.



And uh....does this mean I'll be "you know who" next week? I shouldn't have said that.

[crappertay]

Muhahahaha.


Scripts don't work. PHP does. That's what we use for our rotations.