Bad Fandom: Worn Out By Whedonites

Ahhh. It is perhaps the crazy Whendon obsessed fans that are the loudest and most obnoxious and abrasive and protective of their beloved shows... I could go on but I won't.

You like your shows, we like ours.

Most of us will not bother you, as long as you do not bother us.

But I do agree with you, honestly, cause some things just get waaaaaaaaaaaay out of hand. Like the OC, or any show with the word Beach in it or associated with it. Ugh.

*sighs*

Such is life. We all must deal with the obsesso-peeps every now and then.

=]

Geez, lighten up on the vitriol. Just the fact that you're ready to crucify the writer for her opinion pretty much proves the point. To each his own... that's the point. Whedon is a good writer, I like his work. I like Lost too, and Six Feet Under and Dexter and a ton of other shows out there. Just cause I don't think the guy walks on water doesn't make me dumber than you for not seeing absolute genius like you do. We're talking TV shows... as great as it can be, the minute we make it out too be more than it is the more trouble we're all in.

So......this mean-spirited, caustic, humorless, and possibly faux screed was meant to be your audition for a critic's position at the New York Times, right?

Sorry dear, you're not hired.

I'm pretty sure I agree with Tracy here. Partly that's because I've been a fan of Joss Whedon's writing, directing and producing talents since the TV show Buffy the Vampire Slayer first showed up in 1997 ... never been much of a fan of his mad dance skills, though. I've been involved in the Internet Buffy community for almost as long, and I have never heard the term “Jossus� until today (though a quick internet search did find two whole references outside this article that weren't to someone in Moldavia). And I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty darn sure Joss Whedon doesn't have a blog. For one thing, I don't think he has the time, and for another ... someone would have found it and told us about it. I mean, how could the people so dedicated to foisting the show on you not also foist the blog on those of us who actually like the show? (A blog for the “Whedonesque� community does not count as Joss' blog.)

I've never pushed one of Joss's shows on anyone. I've talked them up; told people how much I loved them, and perhaps I've talked about them a lot. I've certainly quoted them enough, and the family who refuses to watch this “silly show� thinks I'm incredibly funny when I do. But I'm a grown up. I've been a grown up for as long as many (not all) Buffy fans have been alive. I accept that my sister doesn't always like the shows I like, but it does annoy me when she refuses year after year* to watch one single episode of the show based on its name, until finally she watches the musical episode, enjoys it, and STILL won't watch another episode. I gave her shows a shot. I did. CHiPS was NOT good.

* We would see an ad for the show on TV, she would complain about how “silly� it looked. That is not me pushing.

You also miss the point when you complain about the actors' acting (which is not terrible), or the writing (which is f-ing brilliant). And I won't even bother comparing the actors from Buffy to those on Star Trek or Star Wars (no matter how funny the idea is) because that's not the point. Of course, if going on to other things is a measure of acting talent, then David Hasselhoff and his 42 acting credits must be a genius. But still not the point. Buffy is the whole package, from concept through execution. Now, maybe you don't get the whole “high school is hell� metaphor. I'm sure there are people who don't. For me, it resonates.

Now, I could be as nasty as you are in your article and say that if you'd gotten a real degree in college instead of coasting through in “film studies�, then maybe you'd have the intelligence to grasp Firefly. After all, my degree was in Mathematics, which means I had to work and study and I got a real job after graduation. But I won't be that mean and nasty, because I have friends who majored in film studies, and so I know that there are intelligent film students out there, just like I know that there are good Whedon fans out there and there are bad Whedon fans out there. See, I don't generalize based on one person's ignorance.

I love Joss Whedon's shows and writing (from Toy Story onwards), I really do. However, he can be very cruel and his shows do require an emotional commitment that is most frequently so not rewarded with puppies and fairy floss. And saying this I don't expect to evangelise his work to anyone. The Joss Journey is not for the faint hearted. I am also aware that he has surrounded himself with quality writers and actors and this also has added to his brand.
I think both Buffy and Angel jumped the shark a couple of times and to his credit Angel jumped back in the last season. Firefly never had the opportunity to do that and perhaps we should be grateful that these shining shows are frozen in amber and look forward to 'the next thing' from Joss's clever and cruel mind. Keep moving forward, or 'just keep flying' but to the next thing, not backwards.

I like Joss Whedon i really do, Firefly was kind of boring though, and he made a lot of mistakes with "Angel", and Buffy The Vampire Slayer. I would never try to convert people to loving all Joss Whedon related shows. The only thing I would try to monvert people to is to the B/A (buffy/Angel) coupling!!!

It's always enjoyable to read people's opinions on acting quality. Most people have absolutely no idea what makes a good actor - or what really makes a bad one - and yet they spout opinions as if they were a mouthpiece for the God of critics...

Both Firefly fans and Buffy fans can be annoying in their zeal for their respective shows, but the attitude of superiority from the Buffy fans is off really what put people off more than anything.

In an exchange on one of the Whedonite sites yesterday.

"I think the writer has a point, You "Buffy" people are hard to deal with. I can't remember how many times I have tried to explain that there is a large amount of people who only see "Buffy" as a bunch of kids, playing with vampires and not everyone gets into the Vampire thing.

I disagree with the opinion that "Firefly" deserved to be canceled, but I understand that it isn't for everyone, no matter how much I love it.

BTW, both Nathan and Summer are getting very good press, especially Summer, who is considered a rising star in the business."

a response was:

"'Buffy' people? I think you'll find without Buffy and the success it brought Joss there would be no 'firefly' people...like you."

The response of the moderator was to put the first poster "In Time Out"

Nothing was said to the second poster who verbally accosted the first, because he was. in their minds, defending Buffy.

They take their Buffy seriously, so seriously, that you would have to be careful not to offer any criticism or there will be consequences.

First off... Great Article.

Secondly...One of my friends LOVES buffy i mean L O V E S buffy (and angel wayyyy more than spike for that matter...cause spike's hair really is creepy and ugly) and i completely understand her little fetish for joss and his "AWESOME AVERAGENESS." i have seen it and i have read a comic or two--so i'm not just blabbing out of hatred--and i must agree the acting is terrible and the jokes, well, they are awkward at best. however, i must admit i enjoyed the "cookies/cookie dough" scene throughly.

Lastly...If you are actually upset by this article and judging from several of the comments on it many people are...that is just sad. What the hell are you trying to defend? It's simply a statement of fact. And try reading the last paragraph again. Idiots.

I don't know how you can say that nothing was done on Buffy that was not done better somewhere else if you haven't watched it.

Alyson Hannigan's acting on Buffy was fantastic. I like How I Met Your Mother, but I don't find that Hannigan's acting is anywhere near what she accomplished on Buffy. I have wondered if it's because the character just doesn't have as much depth.

You don't have to watch Buffy/Angel/Firefly. You don't have to like it. But if you haven't watched, then you can't exactly judge the quality of the shows. Sorry. But thanks for offering an opinion.

Yeah, I've been told the same by fans of that Battlestar Galactica, that I should just watch the Mini-Series... but it's three goddamn hours long!

I'm an "accidental" Whedonist: Only after a carpool buddy confessed to being "addicted to Buffy" did I stop down and watch 10 minutes of an episode during Season 2.
I was enthralled, and said the same thing to myself that people do now, when I show them 10 minutes of Firefly: "How did I not know about this?"

First of all: Let it go!

My good woman, let us just watch the show. Did someone tie you to a chair and made you watch all the seasons over and over again?

We all have the right to our opinions, and if Buffy isn’t your cup of tea, big deal. If someone near you is talking about Buffy endlessly, tell them to shut up. There’s so need to trash us all. I mean, come on, the real Buffy-fanatics, are we really worse than any other fanatics? I can’t imagine that we are the worst of all fans. Judge people by their level of fanatic, not that they like Buffy.

I don’t think “you’re wrong� because you don’t like what I like. I hate people who look at you as if you’re crazy when you don’t like their favourite show. I’m not like that, and were do you have the statistics to say that all Buffy-fans are like that?

Btw, Sarah can act. And I can assure you that I’m not her husband. I’m not drinking your kool-aid and agreeing with you, since I think they are great actors. Maybe not the best, but they keep me entertained.

And “Jossus�? lol, I’d never say that. Seriously, who said that? lol

I do not like you sir or your point of view.

- Bad acting, sounds like your opinion - something that you dislike others pushing on you?

Wow you have a degree...

OMG, my sides hurt from laughing. I am a true Whedonite, but I have to tell you that you made some very good points. We do get a bit annoying, don't we? ;-)

I think that the most annoying thing about Whedon fans is that they're right. It IS ture that if you do watch a good episode of Buffy or watch the pilot of Firefly you're going to be hooked for the rest of your life. I know, as it happened to me back during Buffy season five. Now, Buffy fans know that this was one of the WORST seasons of Buffy. But at the urging of my friends I tuned in one night, and it also wasn't even a great episode for that season, but I was HOOKED. I went straight from "wtf, pretty blonde fights vampires?" to bawling my eyes out when Buffy dies.

I've witnessed the similar conversion of many people around me. One of them even wrote an article in the high school paper bashing Buffy and was converted in college.

Most of the people I know who refuse to give Buffy a try watch nothing but reruns of Family Matters and Fresh Prince. Lost causes if you know what I mean.

As a Whedonite, I am very select as to who I slip my 'lending' copy of Firefly to. It isn't for everyone, but if and when it does connect for a new fan- that is a beautiful thing. The whole Browncoat phenom is based on word of mouth, and the ranks grow day in and day out.

I am also a huge fan of Lost..by far the best show on TV right now (well, it is actually tied with The Office in my opinion) and that is because of fine writing, and the creators not working from the assumption that the audience are idiots that can't think and have never read a book before. I am a fan of unique and intelligent television in all forms as well as being a bit of a pop culture junkie...as are are most Whedonites I have met.

Seriously, this is the best thing I've read all day. And I am, admittedly, a psycho Buffy fan...Angel, too. Heck, I found this article via the Whedonesque website, which I go to regularly. To further prove my geekdom, TV Guide published a letter of mine is last week's issue--and yes, it was regarding Buffy!

This was great--kudos to you for putting it out there. My feelings aren't hurt, I have no righteous indignation, nor am I plotting your demise. I honestly loved it. Also, N.E. Lilly's ode to the Whedonverse was the best!
p.s. Don't even get me started on Lost...now there's my passion! :)

N.E. Lilly: Thank you, Whedon fan for the riff on Dr. Seuss!

Those who hate Buffy: Have you SEEN "The Body" or "Hush"? These, too, are incredible episodes. I've just shown those to my FILM CLASS, and I'll be showing "Out of Gas" and "Objects in Space" this week. These are incredibly beautiful, moving episodes. While I think SMG has done too many B horror flicks, you have to admire her acting in "The Body." I'm proud to try and convert my FILM students, many of whom were stunned by the Buffy episodes. Watch them, watch them, and you will see!

Yeah, sure, we all suck very horribly.

But Alyson Hannigan and SMG can act their pants off. If you'd just watch a season or two of Buffy you'd... Oh, wait. I see exactly where this is going.

I understand. I have friends who push Lost on me like woah. They say that if I just sit down and watch from the beginning I'll fall in love. I just don't wanna. To me, it looks stupid. And yeah, I may be ignorant and not giving it a chance, but I don't want to watch it.

Then again, I am a HUGE Whedon fan, mainly as a flan. And I have pushed people into watching Firefly, I actively made them sit down with me and watch the whole 2hour-ish pilot. But then, I stepped back. If they didn't like it, that was fine. Please don't hate us all for the actions of the vocal minority of us fans.

Oh, and please don't use the Buffy movie as an example of Joss' major works. He may have wrote the original script, but even he has expressed great dislike for how the movie was handled once the studio bought the script. He wrote a different movie than what was filmed.

I'm a fan of Buffy and Angel, even though both had their share of less than stellar episodes, but... please, don't use Astonishing X-Men in an attempt to prove Joss Whedon can write. It sold, because Joss has a devoted fanbase and they gave him reign over several of the premiere X-Men characters, but none of those stories are going to be remembered as classics. Danger, Ord, and the way he brought back Collosus... it ranges from unimpressive to downright pathetic.

Runaways was alright, but you know... no major impact there, neither. When it comes to crossover time, who cares about those kids in L.A.? Nobody from my count.

Whedon Fan by N.E. Lilly

I am Whedon fan
I am Whedon fan
Whedon fan I am

That Whedon fan!
Than Whedon fan!
I do not like
that Whedon fan!

Do you like
my Firefly?

I do not like it,
Whedon fan.
I do not like
my Firefly.

Would you watch it
in the Theater?

I would not watch it
in the Theater.
I would not watch it
anywhere.
I do not like
my Firefly.
I do not like it,
Whedon fan.

Would you watch it
on TV?
Would you watch it
on DVD?

I do not like it
on TV.
I do not like it
on DVD.
I do not like it
in the Theater.
I do not like it
anywhere.
I do not like my Firefly.
I do not like it, Whedon fan.

Would you watch it
in comic books?
Would you watch it
on FOX?

Not in comic books.
Not on FOX.
Not on TV.
Not on DVD.
I would not watch it in the Theater.
I would not watch it anywhere.
I would not watch my Firefly.
I do not like it, Whedon fan.

Would you? Could you?
At a Con?
Watch it! Watch it!
Here they are.

I would not,
could not,
at a Con.

You may like it.
You will see.
You may like it
for free!

I would not, could not for free.
Not at a Con! You let me be.

I do not like it in comic books.
I do not like it on FOX.
I do not like it on TV.
I do not like it on DVD.
I do not like it in the Theater.
I do not like it anywhere.
I do not like my Firefly.
I do not like it, Whedon fan.

A train! A train!
A train! A train!
Could you, would you,
on a train?

Not on a train! Not for free!
Not at a Con! Fan! Let me be!

I would not, could not, in comic books.
I could not, would not, on FOX.
I will not watch it on DVD.
I will not watch it on TV.
I will not watch it in the Theater.
I will not watch it anywhere.
I do not watch my Firefly.
I do not like it, Whedon fan.

Say!
In the Black?
Out in the Black!
Would you, could you, in the Black?

I would not, could not,
out in the Black.

Would you, could you, with a man called Jayne?
I would not, could not,
with a man called Jayne.
Not in the Black. Not on a train.
Not at a Con. Not for free.
I do not like it, Whedon fan, you see.
Not on TV. Not in comic books.
Not on DVD. Not on FOX.
I will not watch it in the Theater.
I do not like it anywhere!

You do not like
my Firefly?

I do not
like it,
Whedon fan.

Could you, would you,
you dang’d punk?

I would not,
could not,
and I’m not a punk!

Would you, could you,
in your bunk?

I could not, would not, in my bunk.
I will not, will not, (don’t call me a punk).
I will not watch it with a man called Jayne.
I will not watch it on a train.
Not in the Black! Not for free!
Not at a Con! You let me be!
I do not like it in comic books.
I do not like it on FOX.
I will not watch it on TV.
I do not like it on DVD.
I do not like it in the Theater.
I do not like it ANYWHERE!

I do not like
your
Firefly!
I do not like it,
Whedon fan.

You do not like it.
So you say.
Watch it! Watch it!
And you may.
Watch it and you may, I say.

Whedon fan!
If you will let me be,
I will try it.
You will see.

Say!
I’ll be damned!
I do! I like it, Whedon fan!
And I would watch it in my bunk.
And I would watch it (I guess I was a punk)...

And I will watch it with a man called Jayne.
And in the Black. And on a train.
And at a Con. And for free.
They are so good, so good, you see!

So I will watch it in comic books.
And I will watch it on FOX.
And I will watch it on TV.
And I will watch it on DVD.
And I will watch it here and there.
Say! I will watch it ANYWHERE!

I do so like
my Firefly!
Thank you!
Thank you,
Whedon fan!

I'm insulted. I am a huge Whedon fan... and I don't do any of the things you accuse all of us of doing. Do I think you have bad taste for not loving all things Buffy, Angel, and Firefly? Absolutely. Do I think you are ignorant for it... Absolutely not. Do I believe in my heart, soul, and incredible imagination that if you truly did watch more of anything Whedon has to offer that you would fall in love with it? Absolutely. Do I really care if you do it? Absolutely not.
I started out as a non-believer. I accidentally caught scenes.. not full episodes but scenes of Buffy when it was being rerun on the FX Network. I had watched the movie and was annoyed at how stupid it was, so I had no interest when the show came out. It grew on me slowly, until before I knew it, I was in love with the show. I didn't start watching the show live until Season Six, and never tried Angel until it was on DVD. Now I love both shows, and could watch the episodes a million times without becoming bored. Even though I have the DVDs I always catch myself watching when both shows are on TV.
Firefly I didn't even know about when it aired. I think I remember something about it, but it competed with a show I was already watching regularly, so I didn't bother checking it out. Two years ago I bought the DVD, yes, just because it is from Whedon. I fell in love by episode two.
So the way I see it... Maybe you are not the type of person who enjoys watching the struggle of human existence with a Sci-Fi twist. Perhaps your type of humor doesn't include the witty writing that these shows are known for. That is your choice, and in my opinion, your loss. Either way, try not to condemn the entire fan base, for a few aggressive fans.

His next show is about blank slate women who can be programmed to do whatever their masters want be it kick ass or suck peepee.

The ultimate basement-dwelling girl-repelling geek's female control and domination fantasy if ever I heard it.

Who says Joss only caters to his fanbase? LOL!