Alex Gibney has made a reputation in the last few years as a quiet terror to the establishment, making documentaries like Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room and Taxi to the Dark Side that put into glaring light the criminals and crimes that actually run this country. And for his latest documentary, he's tackling one of the most famous and fascinating criminals of all: "Casino Jack," a.k.a. disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

In his film Casino Jack and the United States of Money, Gibney picks apart the insanely complex web of connections, kickbacks and schemes that made Abramoff the most famous crooked lobbyist in Washington-- but certainly not the only one. Gibney follows Abramoff's track from a rising young Republican star to power broker to the senators to the guy who ripped off the Indian tribes, exposing him as some kind of hybrid of idealist and crook. Gibney is clearly as fascinated by Abramoff as he is disgusted, and we clearly feel both side of that watching the film.

Casino Jack comes out in theaters later this year, so I'll run our full 20-minute conversation then; in the meantime watch a 5-minute excerpt in which Gibney explains why Abramoff is still relevant and his role as a different kind of criminal.