Xbox 360 Could Save PS3 From Decimating Game Developers

Hmm... This console war has got silly. I am a collector of consoles and have been for many years. I even bought a Neo Geo years ago when the games were £120 upwards each!!! Yet the console sold very well along with the incredibly high priced games. It was the best built high spec console way ahead of its time. If the quality is good then people will pay good money for it.

Although the PS3 appears to be expensive??? Well it isnt really. Here is why. You get a Blu Ray player which also plays DVDs without the need for an extra remote control (Xbox360 requires one). It has free wireless (£70 to buy the Xbox360 add on unless you have the elite ) and HDMI included in all models. In a nutshell Sony have made it quite clear that the PS3 is more than a games system. More like a media entertainment system.

For those who say the PS3 is far more expensive than the XBOX360? you are so wrong. Microsoft are cunning. The Xbox live Gold at £50 here in the UK for the next 6 years or more will make the total cost of the Xbox360 over £600 not including repairs, HD DVD and add-ons. So it is NOT TRUE that the Xbox360 is cheaper or better value for money. (PS3 online is free). As a collector I now have to upgrade AGAIN to the elite to get a more reliable machine with HDMI.

I own both units and have found minor differences in performance and graphics so in my eyes - neither console wins the war at present. The Xbox 360 is not better than the PS3 or vice versa as they both do EXACTLY the same graphically at present. Another thing I noticed is that the PS3 is exceptionally quieter compared to my 360 and it loads almost twice as fast as the 360 too. I am not a PS3 fanboy, this is all fact having the machines setup together in my lounge. Those who doubt me should go to a store and load the same game on each console before purchasing to see the proof. I am just a games crazy collector pointing out truthful unbiased differences!

Next point. I own 1 PS3. I have owned 2 Xbox360s. I started out with the standard unit which died with the red rings of death after 12 and a half months of purchase but got a replacement through my insurance and upgraded to the Premium 360. Luckily im still on my 2nd machine. Thank god i was smart enough to insure it!

Blu ray has really taken off and now Warner Bros have announced that they are dumping HD DVD and launching titles exclusively on Blu Ray in June 2008. This means HD DVD will effectively die in about a year or 2 years from now due to lack of support as most of the big firms are now Blu ray exclusive. This now makes the PS3 the cheapest Blu Ray player on the market as well as a games console/media system.

I really love my Xbox360 and spend hours unshaven and droopy eyed on it but have found a problem which I believe will eventually make Sony the market leader. Microsoft is American. Sony is Japanese. The American market prefer shooters like Gears of War, Ghost Recon, Call of duty and so on. This stems from the days when people including myself played PC shooters like Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake in single mode or online along with RPGs back in the day.

The Japenese market is more diverse and if you look at the history of the Megadrive and Super Nintendo (famicom) you will see some marvelous classics which I believe should be revived in 3D (Alex the Kid, Mystical Ninja, Gynourg, Gunstar heros, R-type, Ghouls and ghosts, Wonderboy and many more on the Next Gen consoles??).

I still think to this day the 16bit was the most creative era. It seems the more power the developers have been given, the lazier they have become with ideas much like Hollywood. There are only a few games out there actually worth buying on the 360 and PS3. I think they are all the same and quite boring. Examples? Project Gotham 3 and 4, Need for speed - street racers with little differences. Gears of war, call of duty etc war sims with fancy graphics but ultimately all the same (apart from modern warfare which is fresh).

Graphically i've been wowed by these next Gen consoles but i think the games are rather dull which is why I along with millions still revert to the PS2, gamecube and the older generation consoles for fun!

Look at the 360 titles (which were/are later ported onto the PS3). Most of them are racers or war simulations aimed at the American market because the US has a large 360 fan and sales base. Japan and Europe like these games too but prefer a broader genere of titles and platform/action type games such as GTA series, Streetfighter, Rez, infact most of the titles types made for the PS2.

To help those deciding to purchase a next Gen or trying to decide which is better? I believe Microsoft will release another unit after the Elite with a Blu Ray player inlcuded within a year and possible a motion sensing device built in which will come as an add-on for the earlier units. A Blu ray unit is now a certainty. So please stay clear of HD-DVD, you've been warned and I suggest you scan web forums and news sites if you doubt me.

If you want a games console with great online service (which you must subscribe to) and a large library of games that are released frequently then the Xbox360 is the one to go for. The 360 is just that, a games console. But be warned. Take out insurance because the life span of the console remains an uncertainty even on the elite systems (check out You Tube movies on Elite red ring of death)

If you want a HD Media centre with Blu Ray, plays existing DVDs without the need for an additional remote, CDs, Free online, Free wireless, Internet access, PS1 compatibilty, PS2 on the 60 and 80 GB units but not the 40GB (40GB unit will have a PS2 emulator released soon to solve this) then the PS3 is the one to go for. You will free up some space under your TV cabinet when you bin or sell your DVD player.

I've been studying console wars for years and seen a pattern. Like it or not JAPAN decides the winner hence the death of Sega in the console race. Clear evidence? PS1 vs Dreamcast. The Wii and DS are Japanese and console leaders globally. It is just a matter if time now thanks to Warner bros decision before PS3 sales climb at a steady pace.

If Microsoft make XBOX Live Free and encourage developers to offer the USA a broader range of games that appeal to Japan and Europe then they have a very good chance of winning but I cannot see this happening. I expect to see a Halo spin off announced in 2008 along with at least another 4 or 5 war sims from developers. Microsoft if your reading this Japan and Europe are bored of shooters!

I don't own either PS3 or XBox Elite "yet", but today I was at the counter with a PS3 in my hands, about to trade in my PS2, and felt so alone because I think that nothing Sony can offer will beat "XBox Live" and for ~$50/year!. Don't get me wrong, the PS3 is a sexy beast indeed and I'm an impulsive buyer, but think of all the licensing MS has already filed for the online experience; it's not about catching up, it's about who goes first. I think when Sony tries to integrate the online experience they will hit alot of walls. Waiting 1.5-2 years for good games to show up on the PS3, by then the 3.2 GHz Cell on PS3 and the 3.2 GHz Tri Core on the XBox, will be obsolete and the only thing that matters is online compatibility. As for "technology" the #1 rule is making it affordable for the masses.
I did feel special holding the $600 PS3, God it's so sexy I wanted to cry! It took all my will to put it back. Who knows, maybe tomorrow I'll pick up the PS3, as long as I can hold out until April 29th then I'll be okay. When Intel (World's largest CPU, producer) and MS (World's largest software developer) join forces, the only choice is to yield and enjoy the ride or die, besides they are making it affordable for the masses. But then again, I may take the samourai way and buy the PS3 and die lol. All kidding aside, I'm still deciding and a hard decision it is! God, why can't they just team up!

what i learn form the discussion that PS3 & Xbox360 got huge fanboy. It's not wrong to be a fanboy of something. just keep it real.

I think, William Usher was right about 1 thing for sure. i am now try to explain to you guys which one.

You people agree with me or not, Xbox was better than PS2 in almost all places in hardware level. 2 thing it lacks, no major installment of consoles like PS2 and no huge support by game developers. So, PS2 dominent all places. So, good machine but not enough games to attract people.

MS learn from that and make sure that they don't make the same mistake. So, X360 released with good software kits. It makes the developers think again to develop games for X360 who are not interested to release games to original Xbox.

PS3 hardware is superior than Xbox360. no doubt. 1 thing it lack that X360 which is Blue ray. My question "Why i need to play movie on my game console?" also BD dvd data transfer rate not greater/equal to DVD. so, after developing good speedy BD drive, Sony can come up with DVD addons, then it will be GREAT. But they put that, make price high and more less complex the game development kits for developer to works on.

i still believe that, if SONY didn't bring PS3 and still works on PS2 another 2 years, they still can beat X360 with no chance. But its all about market, you have to keep up with ur competetor. thats why, (its only an example, nothing more, so don't take it wrong way , so no comments please on this example) NOKIA releasing more and more Mobile to keep up with other mobile company.

So, finaly i think, all the 3rd party developer may be apper to cross platform and make money on their way. why stick around only with 1 platform. develop for all and taste well and make dissicion which one is best for you. because like EA, all platform will be their platform because they are BIG developer and can handle anything.

i don't know you people believe or not, all the hardware are forced by GAMES to upgrade. like PROCESSOR, RAM, MOTHERBOARD and AGP. every 4 months later, some new technology appear or release press note. So, i am not supporting to hang around with one hardware for 10 years (PS3). may be max 5 years. because meanwhile BIG hardware released. So, SONY and MS must release the full power development kits to the developers to utilize the full power and make $50-$60 realy meaningfull. its not good to say, after * year, we will see you these type of things or we will stay with u abt ** years. I spend money today and i need it right now.!!! show me full power!! don't want to see Movie!!

Since MS is a software GIANT, may be their system will be easy to develop than SONy but that does't mean SONY will be a loser. every system has pros and cons. so, its fair enough for everbody.

i think, except the BD player, PS3 and X360 are same powerful hardware with slight different. it has to be, because it release after 1 year. price tag will be a key factor. and losing exclusiveness may damage PS3 because all the year Sony shows the DMC4 trailers to their press and now its gone to X360. don't forger assasian creed !! others will also appear, time will let us know.

one suggestion for all (its only my opinion, so don't need to take it , just read and forget)

SONY : release PS3 on $300. nobody can beat u now or never ever on console war.

MS: make Elite price tag $300 and keep up releasing games like now around 2 years, Sony will never have a chace to repeat last generation History.

Good luck all.

TouhiD

johnson Says:

April 8th, 2007 at 20:08
Altoid, Remember 1 very important thing, M$ is a software company, and they are the best at it!! sony thought they had this one in the bag espescially with 1080p, but M$ released an update and huh, 1080p on the 360! they will always be ahead of the ps3-always.

How are they ahead? That makes no sense. Ms is despretly trying to match the ps3 features with hd-dvd and hdmi, hdmi isn't even needed, the 360 uses an upconverter to 1080p. They just wanted to make the elite look better than just a black color and a hard drive. Don't even tell me they are giving us choice. HA!

This is a pathetic argument, everyone isn't even talking about the main topic of patheticness and the fact that he thinks it doesn't cost them anything to port games. I am getting carried away myself.

@Genus:
Last but not least, watching Microsofts recent announcements it's perfectly clear they feel that neither blu-ray OR HD-DVD will have enough penetration of the overall DVD marketplace that they've pegged the future as content download bypassing the need for ANY hardware player and have placed Live as being the place to get it. It's only a matter of time until they offer full blown game downloads. Sony will really have to hustle to catch up. I'm a PC gamer and have already watched the download model already severly limit the amount of PC games available at most retail outlets. I'm not a fanboy of any console but from where I stand I think Microsoft "gets" it and Sony doesn't by positioning the 360 as your entertainment center for download content while Sony still hypes Blu-ray as the next dominant technology.

As your telling me my 40 year old aunt who is still using dial up is gonna go out get a XBOX to download movies? Sorry fanboy but we're YEARS away from movie downloads. I highly doubt download movies/ games will ever be popular just the feeling of the HDD going bad and someone who has spent $1000's on movies losing them to a bad bad HDD just will never happen.

How the hell is Microsoft going to fall hard with the billions of dollars they have, they are the largest software company in the world. I fail to see how they will lose all of this. BTW how is bringing your product to a larger audience bad? Someone said developers don't get any profits then why the hell are they still in business some of you guys just say stuff, you need to prove it, give us a link or something to back up your argument. Ignorance

Why does there always have to be a winner??? If that's true, then PS2 will always "be" the winner and there's no point creating content for any nextgen console is there? Most of the production houses I believe have already figured out that they need to port to as many console platforms as possible to recoup their investment and no nextgen console has enough penetration as yet to make more maybe 10 times their development costs especially since they all have to pay licensing fees to the platform owners. Licensing fees alone are significant in adding cost to the retail price.

As far as nextgen goes I don't believe we'll be seeing mass conversion to them from PS2/Xbox owners until HD TV's or converters are required when TV broadcasters are required to switch over to HD transmission. By then the cost of LCD HDTV's should be cheap enough to convert to them and current nextgen consoles will have gone through price reductions and THEN we'll see conversion to nextgen consoles. Hopefully there will also be a reduction in retail pricing of the consoles games as there will be more of them out there. No one has to think hard about spending $25-30 on a game but most everyone gives pause about taking a chance on a $60 title. It's always the chicken and egg problem. HDTV conversion will most certainly push more "chickens" (nextgen consoles) out there.

Last but not least, watching Microsofts recent announcements it's perfectly clear they feel that neither blu-ray OR HD-DVD will have enough penetration of the overall DVD marketplace that they've pegged the future as content download bypassing the need for ANY hardware player and have placed Live as being the place to get it. It's only a matter of time until they offer full blown game downloads. Sony will really have to hustle to catch up. I'm a PC gamer and have already watched the download model already severly limit the amount of PC games available at most retail outlets. I'm not a fanboy of any console but from where I stand I think Microsoft "gets" it and Sony doesn't by positioning the 360 as your entertainment center for download content while Sony still hypes Blu-ray as the next dominant technology.

another example of your argument:
Nintendo 64 against PS1
The first one had more powerhouse capabilities in comparison to the lesser capable, but more popular PS1!!.

ms xbox360 save developers? maybe you should consult google and find out how many lawsuits and other legal actions that have taken or are taking place againt microsoft. here is just a snippet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

and history of ms behaviour to kill of competition (infact this is just the actions by microsoft against ONE software company called Novell):

http://www.groklaw.net/arti...

a world ruled by vista and xbox360 is world where developers get crushed/buried/ass-kicked. no matter how hard i try i just can't see microsoft as a white knight.

the point is: the article is accusing sony of destorying developers when there is no real proof it has done. in particular, if fact is stronger than theory (which it should be) than the ps2 should be used as a gauge of how diverse and competitive the games industry has become thanks to the ps2 (over 3000 games from over 100 studios). the article is merely theorizing that the ps3 will kill of developers but maybe if we look further into the future than the biggest threat to developers is not sony but microsoft. legal judgements made against microsoft in its anti-competitive behaviour is testament to this belief.

believe the facts and not the theory.

"Xbox 360 Could Save PS3 From Decimating Game Developers" = the most dumbass theory ever. If anything it should be the other way round. I think most developers will be scared of microsoft and it's leave no prisoners business practice.

ms xbox360 save developers? maybe you should consult google and find out how many lawsuits and other legal actions that have taken or are taking place againt microsoft. here is just a snippet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

and history of ms behaviour to kill of competition (infact this is just the actions by microsoft against ONE software company called Novell):

http://www.groklaw.net/arti...

a world ruled by vista and xbox360 is world where developers get crushed/buried. no matter how hard i try i just can't see microsoft as a white knight.

the point is: the article is accusing sony of destorying developers when there is no real proof it has done. in particular, if fact is stronger than theory (which it should be) than the ps2 should be used as a gauge of how diverse and competitive the games industry has become thanks to the ps2 (over 3000 games from over 100 studios). the article is merely theorizing that the ps3 will kill of developers but maybe if we look further into the future than the biggest threat to developers is not sony but microsoft. legal judgements made against microsoft in anti-competitive behaviour is testament to this belief.

believe the facts and not the theory.

"Xbox 360 Could Save PS3 From Decimating Game Developers" = the most silliest theory ever. If anything it should be the other way round. I think most developers will be scared of microsoft and it's leave no prisoners business practice.

Metallic,

You claim that Lost Planet on the 360 cost $10 million to make, and has lost money. According to VG Charts it has moved over 1.2 million copies worldwide as of this writing.

http://vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=lost+planet&console=&publisher=&sort=Total

Maybe there are more reliable retail tracking sources, it's simply what I have access to. If the numbers are even close, how does $60 million at retail (~60USD X 1 Million units) end up netting less than $10 million for the developer?

Also - I did not write that Grover was a "solid PS fanboy", I thought his post was fine.

Gino

OK, the 360 is clearly not the winner. Microsoft is trying so hard to win but it will not happen. Because, people lost their hope with MS, like Vista, it sucks, it requires 2GB of RAM to fuking run it on your machine. The only people with 2GB are gamers and they don't even want Vista. Now they are trying to take over the anti virus competition, with their Windows Care One crap. It failed to search, quarantine, and delete viruses and spy-ware. Then they have that Windows Live Search, that they copied from Google, Yahoo, and other search engines. Microsoft can't be original, now the last hope they have is the 360 and Microsoft will fall, maybe not now but in time, it will fall hard. Most of the people who write articles like this are getting paid by Microsoft to say buy a 360, it'll have all the games as the PS3 and other crap. Microsoft is just scared, they pay people to rate their games high, this so how corrupt the Game Industry really is.

This generation imo, cannot be compared easily to others since it has so much factors which determines the console success.

interesting read, and for the most part you get it ,as they say "bang on"
but one thing interests me is how you come to this conclusion (at the end..i qoute) "

"..hands down the PS3 will have better games after the next three years,"

are you implying that because they are on the "playstation brand" that they will some how be a better game?
i think that you slipped on your PS fanboy hat by the end of a very good article.

please by all means explain how/why these said games that the ps3 will have will be better than the games on teh xbox360 (because i cant for the life of me fathom why)

just like the xbox..it dint have "better games" than the ps2...(i would be more inclined to sasy that the ps2 are a larger share of these so called better games but that was because there was such a large installed userbase *god of war or ico would have been the same great game regardless of what system it was on)

it just had less games and was more expensive (to buy) , because they were on a more powerfull system didnt make them better games the only thing it did better than the ps2 in tearms of games was the fps.

the mind set of the ps3 will have the best games because its a playstation is a very wrong mindset to spread

What it basically is, if a game is infact both on 360 and Ps3, it still wouldn't make profit, I know quiet a few people who are devs (not big companies, 1 from Activision though!) They say is that there best chance to make money from a cross-plataform game for next-gen (360,Ps3. Not the wii) is to have the game sold for 80 at least. In places like AUS, game are infact 80 usd. Because there is not as much demand for the games, so it's more expensive, but it still doesn't solve the problem.

Let me just say somthing here. I do not see some exclussives going multieplatform as an indication of poor playstation sale or loss of hope for game developers. The only reason I can see is that some of these games were already set to go multie platform just a little later and as soon as gamedevelopers learned about some of the difficultys and cost going into devloping these games they want to make up for it with sales withc is good marketing Sony also has taken a major hit by the developement of the ps3 so they lost interest in keeping some of the games exclusive pluss for the once that are going to remain exclusives they will be but on blu-ray and actualy be useing the space of the disc so being able to make those games multie platform later on will be impossible. So for another thing that people whom might be interested in is that when the Xbox machine overheated and were retuned to namely Best -Buy on extended warrienty they were counted as new sales witch throse of all the figures of the xbox 360s this has been noted to be approxly 10% of 360s that have burned out so all those additional sales are in fact 1 sale that has been counted twice or in some cases 3 times or more?. PS3 have NOT had the same problems that the 360's have had so sale figure comparison has been false.

You folks have got to warn people when you make funnies. Claiming that Mr. Usher is a 360 fanboy. I was drinking a really nice microbrew when I read that. What a shame – all over the monitors and keyboard. Look through some of his posts. 360 fanboy…har.

There is a point here regarding the cost of developing next generation titles. It is very expensive and if developers had to depend on the PS3 market they’d be out of business. The Sony fanboys may not like to hear that – but it is truth and it certainly doesn’t warrant name calling. Seems like some folks have a mighty big chip on their shoulders when an article like this generates such hostility.

The article was about next-gen titles, not PS2 titles (yep…selling very well, huge installed base, developers still developing for it – not relevant to this article). The article’s central theme was valid – in-general and in the near term developers of next-gen titles are going to go Xbox 360 or cross-platform. The question for Sony is what are they going to do about this? Lower prices to make the machines affordable to the target audiences? Provide development tools and incentives to developers to lower their required investment for each game? Or just wait it out and hope PS3 catches on down the road because of its “superior� technology? This latter strategy actually might work for Sony. It isn’t going to work for the small-house developers. It would be a sad day if four years down the road the only studios left playing in the PS3 sandbox were EA, Ubisoft, and Capcom.

Grover Says:

April 8th, 2007 at 09:39

MS is losing money hand over fist with the X360, and insider reports say they are going to hit the 4 billion loses of the Xbox on the X360 in half the time!!!

So where you getting this insider information from then chief? Everyone else seems to have the impression that MS is making money from each console sold as opposed to Sony who are losing money hand over fist. Oh I get it, you got the companies mixed up and we're really slating sony.

Charles ---> Cheap? Most of the worldy things you use and see in life are made from China or Taiwan or Philippines or 3rd world countries idiot!
Gryff ---> Jus cuz u gotz touchéd it dasn't min u hav to call ppl krzy okay?

I am not a fanboy but I have to say M$' new version of 360 dasn't d3serev the title "Elite"... l33t my @55 '/(_) (360) 9()7z pvv^/z3D 8'/ H4XXO125 vvithin d [V]1N[_]73 it (a(V)3 joor (M$) @55.

Metallic, the fact that you typed M$ renders anything you post as a fanboy rant in my eyes. And also:
***M$ will just keep losing money with no another way of gaining it. They don't have something huge like the ps2 or the DS.

What?!? Please post again and explain to me what this even means.

Altoid, Remember 1 very important thing, M$ is a software company, and they are the best at it!! sony thought they had this one in the bag espescially with 1080p, but M$ released an update and huh, 1080p on the 360! they will always be ahead of the ps3-always. I wanted a ps3 but i will not sit and wait for 2-3 years to play games that are worth buying the system for! by that time it will be too late for sony, instead of making a blu ray player play games they should have made a game system to play blu ray!!! This is about games and always has been, not hd dvd or blu ray!! this is what M$ is stating in a major way and they will prevail. sony`s online will never - never be up to par with "live", So what are you buying a ps3 for? mgs4? that game reaks anyway, just go play splintercell--it`s the same anyway and it reeks too!!

Gino

Devs don't gain any money from downloadable games, or movies or anything else from M$. Actually, M$'s only reason for strengthening the downloadable content, because that's the only place they are actually making money from.

Everyone out there with a ps2 arn't ready for a 600$ jump, they will stay with the ps2 until they are happy with what they see.

I don't see why we should call Grover a "solid ps fanboy" he's not against any console here, he's saying the truth, too bad you will never understand it. Because you're all just blinded by the bs of the media and people like William Usher.

Let me put it in point form here:

- Ps3 and X360 do not have an enough install base for devs to gain profit from.

- Ps2 is currently out selling everything in the market and it's cheap to buy and make games for.

- Devs will make games for the ps2 to gain profit from, instead of making for 360 and/or ps3 to lose money.

- Lost planet, was made for the 360 for 10 million dollars, you think they made profit from that? well, they didn't.

- Wii will infact wiind down, it doesn't have the horse power to carry itself, and for the love of god, STOP MAKING MINIGAMES FOR THE FRICKEN THING!

- Wii, almost has no 3rd party support, all the good games that used to come out on the gamecube, have left in the Wii, because it's soo damn different from the 360 and the ps3.

- M$ would love to make games for the ps2, but it will show a huge weakness in the 360. Since the only console M$ has is the 360. (They dropped xbox 1 on 360's launch) They will have to spend every penny on it to get it moving. While Sony has the ps2, psp, and ps3 to juggle, they have to put an intresting act to be able to gain profit from each one of them.

- N has it's DS, (which is selling quiet well), N has also dropped most or all of it's support on the gamecube since Wii doesn't have any 3rd party titles that are, in anyway, amusing. But they have the DS to make profit from.

- M$ will just keep losing money with no another way of gaining it. They don't have something huge like the ps2 or the DS.

I would say the opposite. That the Xbox 360 (and Microsoft) are ruining development for the masses. Microsoft pushed out the 360 too early trying to hit the market more quickly because they knew they could not win a head to head battle with the PS3. They did not release a true HD system and are trying to make up a little bit now with their "Elite" offering. I can't wait until next year when the Xbox 360 "Paramount" comes out with slightly more upgraded features.

My biggest concern about the 360 if I were to purchase one would be the lifespan. Microsoft gave up on the original Xbox to try to make some quick money with the 360. Who's to say they will not give up on the 360 in 2009 to bring out their next system. At least Sony sticks with their systems for as long as possible and that is proven by the continued support for the PS2 this year. I'm sure the PS3 will be bringing great titles well beyond when Microsoft has moved onto the next system and all of the fanboys buy yet another system with slightly upgraded features.

In one or two more years the PS3 will be brining out groundbreaking titles that the 360 will not be able to duplicate and developers will be able to take full advantage of a fully HD videogame system.

Grover - calling William a "solid X360 fanboy" is a little hypocritical, dont you think? From reading your post, I would say you are "solid Playstation fanboy"

That is definately true about the PS2 it is selling more thent he other console and it makes PS3 look stupid. Why are some titles coming out for PS2 and not the PS3? It really doesn't matter to me because I'm and Xbox 360 Fanboy. The reality is if your buying a PS2 it's because your cheap and you haven't made it to the next generation of consoles, you probably don't even own a HDTV. I'm also pretty sure that your probably young which is good because I don't want children playing on XBOX 360 Live anyway.