We Don't Need More Female Superheroes

I would like to point out that Wonder Woman and Tomb Raider aren't the only female super heroes. There is also Withblade, Catwoman, Elektra, Marvel Girl(Jean Grey's original superhero name), Nemiesis, She Ra(and Yes She Ra is both a comic and cartoon) and Hellcat. These are merely a few of the female superheroes all of the ones I choose apart from Marvel Girl are solo heroes are in some cases villians. My point is there are many female superheroes but are generly not as widely know as there male counter parts, not because the lack of fan base but in this era if it hasn't been made into a movie people usually don't know it. Many of the female heroes do not as of yet have actor that can truely portray them. The only solo hero that I think is an exception is Elektra which was played by Garner.
So if there aren't enough female heroes for you then you know shit about comics becasue there is alot you just probably have never heard of them.

Ladies before you get angry at what I have said Just so you know I myself am a girl. And if you really want to find comics with female heroes you can try a used book store you might get lucky.

My point if you didn't get it was there are plenty of female heroes you just have to look harder for them unless your reading x-men cause there is tons of them in there no matter how breif of a time and many end up with there own little spinoff.

I think the author is way off base. The one thing that could have made Iron Man more kickass is if it were Iron Girl. Given the choice of watching sweaty men jump around in spandex or sweaty women, most hetero guys I know would choose the women.

The fact that women are dismissed as being weak by society in general just makes it more dramatic when they are not. Would Buffy have been as cool if she were a guy? Tomb raider as a guy (in skimpy shorts)?
I say bring on the Gen13 gals! The X-men Rouge spinoff! Bring it ON!

First of all, you spelled my name wrong, second you completely missed the point of my article. It didn't simply call for a superhero film to be made about a woman, my main complaint was the fact that most superhero movies do not accurately adapt female characters from the source material and the movies almost always suffer for it. The female characters in the Spiderman and X-men series paled in comparison to their ballsier, sexier, more interesting comic book counterparts and the new Batman franshise chose not to include any female characters from that universe at all. I like romantic Comedies as much as the next girl, but I tend to respond just as negetively to one's where male characters are written as boring, tertiary figures.
As for the possibility of a female centered comic-book movie, well, why not? I think it sends a bad message that women in comics aren't considered important enough to make good movies about, because, well it's not supposed to be our thing anyway, that's just lazy film making. Kill Bill was an immensely popular, critically lauded, female centered action movie that had a very comic-booky vibe. If just one of the film makers I mentioned would take a cue from Quentin Tarantino, Guillermo Del Toro, Robert Rodriguez, Danny Boyle or one of the many action directors who don't suck at writing female characters, they could make a kick ass movie everyone can enjoy. The best movies are the ones that appeal to more than one demographic. It's not just a bleeding heart feminist thing, it's about what makes a good movie and one of the biggest components of a good movie are good characters.

Thera, I didn't miss the point of your article. It's just that I wasn't only responding to your article.

Katey's however, was a direct response to what you wrote.

And apologies for misspelling your name. I actually like Thera better than Tera anyway.

I have a more realistic problem with female superhero movies.

My problem is the way that Hollywood approaches making these films. Their magic formula is as follows.

1. Find Attractive Actress with great body. Acting ability is secondary.

Example: Jessica Alba in Fantastic 4

2. Forget about story. We will just make sure that only the bare minimum of flesh is covered and pack the theaters with teen age boys and idiot men.

Example: Catwoman. Halle Berry is a talented actress that gladly accepted her razzy for this film and stands the statue next to her Oscar.

I would actually like to see a good female superhero movie. One where they invest in the story and work to make a movie that can watch and enjoy

Also many of the original characters didn't have skimpy outfits and lots of people really liked them.

One movie I really appreciated was the first Chalies Angels Movie. The girls didnt wear skimmy outfits, they were badass and lots of things blew up. Not sure if this counts as a superhero movie exactly but it was deffinatly an action movie with three leading women who were all strong and had secret identities. It had a good story line and the acting was great.

Actually I think the problem is people making sweeping generalizations when it comes to groups of people. Not to sound snide but it comes off more to me that you're speaking of the stereotypes of men and women rather than actual people. As a woman who grew up on comics and make them my living I find the notion of feeling like I'm just supposed to like Sex and the City and the likes more than a little condescending. On the flipside I also find your article to do a bit of disservice to men as well by assuming that they all like guns and blowing stuff up.
Speaking as a female comic fan, I couldn't disagree with you more. As a commenter said before me. What we like isn't cut and dry and I think your conclusions are a little bit shallow and overly simplified. I also think a lot of problems with Hollywood, which are very apparent in your article is that people assume too much. Particularly when it comes to women.

There's another thing I'd like to mention. A lot of your opinions seem to be based on anecdotal evidence: crowds you've personally witnessed, people you've personally talked to, etc. It should be noted that this is not considered as statistically prudent. I think you might have to consider the chicken and the egg here Josh. Do you not know many female fans of these things because they don't exist in fair numbers? Or are they not drawn to you in a social setting because of your general outlook, which is, at its core, a bit offensive to these women.

"There’s something unintentionally sexist about it, it’s as if we’re saying women’s interests are somehow inherently inferior, and to be validated they must instead find ways to be more like men."

Josh, I hate to tell you, I don't think you'd recognize sexism if it sat up and not only bit you on the posterior but was waving a sign at the same time. I'm not mad at you for this because I've seen work like yours before and no doubt will see it again.

I'm sad that there are so many so-called "chick flicks" (only a marketing wonk would ever come up with a category like that) if only because so many of them are bad. And I'm not talking bad in that "OMG, this is so bad it almost reaches good" way, I'm talking "OMG, this is so bad I feel tremendously sorry for any straight woman who goes to see this crap."

The flavor of a lot of modern movies that get marketed towards women panders to both the real and perceived notions of what women want and/or need. It's easier to go for the lowest common denominator (ala "Bride Wars") than to dig deeper and ask women what it means to be a hero, both to yourself and others.

Wonder Woman not a hero to women? Obviously you missed it when she was featured on the cover of "Ms." in the 1970s. You also fail to understand that to women of a certain age (myself included) it's hard to see anyone else play the part without seeing the oh so iconic Lynda Carter. The possibility of a WW movie simultaneous fills me with glee and dread. Glee because, dude, it's Wonder Woman! Dread because of the inevitable casting of some young chippy with a big head, small body, crappy fighting skills and the inevitable swimsuit spread in FHM. It's gets old after a while but depending on Hollywood (and focus groups) to actually get it right is like waiting for a pig to sing.

I agree 100%!
My wife Loves Wonder Woman. The best thing I can get for a gift is WW stuff. She was totally thrilled to get the WW underwear set (like underroos for adults).

I agree with you many "chick flicks" make me want to vomit in all actuallity if I had the choice between lets say a walk on the beach or spawn Iwould so go with spawn.

Bride Wars is released today. I'm willing to bet good money it reinforces Josh's whole arguement by going to number 1.

Not really. What does Bride Wars have to compete with? This article was on Superhero movies and as there are no new (or old) superhero movies out to compete with Bride Wars, whether it goes to #1 or not is really irrelevent.

As for the argument that female movies are more popular, there simply aren't any decent non child/female movies out right now.

So yeah, it will more then likely to go to #1. There's simply nothing else out this week.

OF COURSE it will. There's nothing else in theatres.

1. Men and women are, in general, different. As a generalized whole they have different interests and abilities: men are more likely to excel at spatial reasoning and to be interested in activities or entertainment focused around violence or conflict; women are more likely to excel at verbal skills and to be interested in activities or entertainment involving social interaction or emotions.

2. Gender isn't zero sum. We aren't all male or all female. Interests and abilities linked to gender are affected by sex hormones in the brain- and the scale isn't male to female. In terms of gender, we can be measured by two scales: one ranking how feminized our brains are, one ranking how masculinized they are. Obviously some people fall into the extreme mostly male guy or mostly female girl ends of the scale, but other people have a closer ratio- a guy who is largely interested in "male" activities, but also somewhat interested in "female" activities, or a girl who has an equal interests in both, but scores high on female abilities and low on male ones. Now, the pertinent question is- how many people are at the extremes, falling into the gender stereotypes, and how many people are a more even mix of both, even enough, at least, to be affected by studio marketing?

3. That last question is unfortunately complicated by the fact that historically society has exacerbated the gender divide by emphasizing specific interests and spheres for men and women. Men had the world and reason and logic and waging war, and women had the home, the emotional care of the family. (If you're wondering why saying men and women have different interests can come across as sexist- this is why. For most of human history the difference between men and women's interests and abilities was used as justification to keep women in an inferior position.) Obviously this has changed a lot in the last 50 years, however, claims of strict gender divides- such as "men like action, women like romcoms and never the twain shall meet"- continue to be prevalent, and it's really impossible to tell how much societal influences like these impact people's choices, such as what film to see.

4. Should Hollywood produce more female superhero movies RIGHT NOW? No. There's not enough crossover appeal yet. However, movies like The Dark Knight or Apatow films are starting to change the strict distinctions between what makes up a male film or a female film. TDK transcended the superhero genre to become a general interest film. It got a lot of comparison to the lauded crime drama The Departed, and no one freaked out when women liked The Departed and told the women they only liked it because they'd been told to. (My one self-indulgent anecdote: The only way I could get two female friends to see Iron Man was to promise to reimburse their ticket costs if they didn't like it. They liked it. Both these girls, however, were already gung-ho to see TDK because it was much more effectively marketed to a broad audience.)

5. Are men and women ever going to be interested in superhero films in equal amounts? Highly unlikely. However I do think there is a substantial untapped market of women who would see superhero flicks if only they could get past the idea that they aren't "supposed" to like them and/or (but mostly AND) those films included stronger, more interesting and well-developed female characters- even if they were only supporting characters. Some effort has been made to attract this market, but not nearly enough. An effort at better written female characters is definitely one that should be made. I hardly see how better characterization could hurt a film, unless you think that men would actively avoid a genre movie with a strong supporting female character. Would this be too much "twisting and turning" of your precious guy movie for you to handle?

6. The real point is: Make better superhero movies and they will appeal to a more general audience. Period. (This general audience also includes many men who normally wouldn't see a superhero movie, because they previously saw superheroes are silly or juvenile.) What we like isn't cut and dry. Yes, it is somewhat determined by our biology, but even within a gender there is great diversity in interests and talents. Ultimately trying to preserve gender purity at the movies is just bad business.

Wow, thanks for the most thoughtful and nuanced post about gender that I've seen in a long, long time. I think you've got it all just about dead on.

I agree with you but historically speaking yes men and women had diffrent circles but in sparta both men and women were trained for war. And in many ancient roman cities men, women and children all went to watch the gladiators. my point is history has made these circles yes but it has also show how some people or even entire regions have broken them.

My female friends and I read comic books and love comic based movies. We also *gasp* dress up in superhero costumes. We have never been asked to do this for anyone, nor have we been paid. Our main reason for spending tons of money on comic and movie accurate costumes...we do it for charity. We attend events and charities such as Make a Wish, Childrens Hospitals, Kidney Foundations, Toys for Tots, as well as many others.

You would think girls don't care for Superheroes, (especially female ones,) but it simply isn't true. Do you know how many girls I saw this halloween wearing Supergirl, Batgirl, or Wonder Woman costumes? A good third as I walked around 2 nights at out local zoos Halloween event and city halloween party.

Girls like superheros, it's simply society telling many of them that they should be watching Hannah Montana instead of Spectacular Spiderman, or watching Disney Princess movies instead of an animated Justice League movie. They don't make girls sized Spidey shoes. If they did, I know several young girls who would get them.

As a test, I decided to ask one of the older cheer squads at my gym which superhero (if any) movies they enjoyed watching and if given the choice, they'de rather watch the Superhero movie or Mamma Mia. Out of 13 girls ages 12-16, over half said they enjoyed movies such as Iron Man, Dark Knight, and Spiderman. A third said they would rather watch one of those movies over Mama Mia or a movie like it, and all know who Supergirl is,less then half know who Wonder Woman is, and about half know who Batgirl is.

Now, there are 2 other cheer squads I could ask for you if you like, plus 2 gymnstics teams and an entire gym full of martial artists and gymnasts. Also, maybe you could tell me why everytime I go into Hot Topic there are more and more selections of girls sized superhero shirts, hoodies, and accesories. Or why I've gotten more comments from teenage girls about my Batman purse as opposed to my Coach one.

I'm not denying there are more male comic fans then girls, I am however disagreeing with the fact that there aren't many and the few you see in costumes are there to "slut it up." Come to Dragon Con and tell a girl costumer that. I'd like to see what happens.

Thank you! It's not us girls faults that when we're little everyone wants to see us playing with baby dolls and the like. And the same goes for little boys, it's not their fault that they're seen as weak if they want to play with a doll. At least they have action figures to cover it up. What's a little girls equivalent? A Hannah Montana themed toy gun?

Major props to you and your friends for your superhero costumed charity event attendance.

Being a girl near that age range i would also have to say i would rather see the dark knight than mama mia.
But i also have a guy friend that would rather see mama mia.

Iron Man, Wanted, Dark Knight Returns, Death Race, and The Mummy 3.

Those are the last movies I've actually seen in a theater. All of them? With separate groups of female friends.

And it sure as hell wasn't a guy who hosted the 'Action Advent' that I went to, showing two of the best Christmas movies ever made: Lethal Weapon and Die Hard.

Yep. Girls NEVER go to action movies.

You know you opened a big can of worms with this one my friend. That's all i'm saying.

Yes, I've shocked the world by saying men like superheroes more than women. Wow. What a hot topic! Surely the sales of Wonder Woman costumes will plummet this Halloween. Little girls will be forced to go as Princesses!

That's not exactly what you said. You said things like "women may see Spider-Man and find something fun in it..." and "ask most women which movies they’re most looking forward to in 2009 and odds are that it’ll be something starring Julia Roberts" and reduced girl's play to playing with dolls (iow pretending to have babies). You claim certain qualities or stories as male so that even if there's a female hero it must be understood that she's not meant for women. Even if some women happen to like her, she's not theirs; she's got some essential male-ness to her to be a proper hero (but this isn't sexism!).

It's hard to just nod and agree with those kinds of statements when it seems obvious to you that everybody knows who Spider-Man is and exactly kind of movie Spider-Man will be and goes to see it accordingly. Or that girl's imaginative play very often includes adventure--and girls often learn to identify with male protagonists while boys just have to do the reverse. Or just: Julie Roberts? Seriously?

If Judd Apatow can write the kind of romcoms that he, a man, likes it's not hard to imagine that a woman might want to see or make female superhero movies that she likes. It might be a good action movie that appealed to men too. I don't think it's about "forcing" women to like something they don't like. It's like anything else--an individual wants more stories of the type they like. They don't put it to a vote to their gender or ethnic group first.

Hollywood doesn't cater to the individual. They cater to groups, especially where big budget movies like superhero films are concerned. They cater to groups because a superhero movie costs so much to make, that they need a large group of people to go see it. Not an individual. Right or wrong, that's capitalism at work in your entertainment.

And I never said a hero has to have some "essential male-ness to her to be a proper hero". I never said anything of the kind.

I DID reduce girl's play to playing with dolls. I also reduced little boy's play to playing with guns. Why aren't you upset about that?

Hollywood doesn't cater to the individual.

Of course it doesn't cater to the individual. Nor would it try to force genres on people who don't want them. If something's a hit Hollywood tries to create more of it--but sometimes what it decides to copy says more about Hollywood than it does what people liked. It's not like Hollywood's known for knowing what groups of people want. It's more known for sticking to what it's decided should work. A superhero movie that appeals to women is not supposed to mean a superhero movie that men don't like.

I DID reduce girl's play to playing with dolls. I also reduced little boy's play to playing with guns. Why aren't you upset about that?

I wasn't upset about it, I just think if you make a statement like that naturally people are going to disagree if that wasn't their experience. If people don't think "girl's play with dolls" accurately describes their experience playing as girls, it's not surprising they are going to challenge your authority in speaking for them. Those are the points that came across most clearly. I think an article saying that Hollywood considers males in a certain demographic to be the most valuable and creates its most expensive movies with them in mind, and so sticks to male superheroes, would have gotten more agreement.

Oh, sorry, I just realized I totally read you wrong. You said "why AREN'T you upset about that."

So I answered the wrong question there, sorry. But the answer is basically the same: I wasn't particularly upset about either. I also am not surprised, given the history, that a woman might feel more compelled to object to the generalization than a man. Especially since the article is about why there shouldn't be more women superheroes and not why there shouldn't be, say, more movies without things blowing up for men.

Well he isn't entirely wrong about girls playing with dolls. It just so happens that several of us did so by dressing them up as ninjas and having them fight our brother's action figures.

At least little boys have action figures.

Not that I can say much as a girl who grew up playing with the boys and with "boy" toys while watching cartoons about male superheroes. But then of course I was a "tom boy".

Like Lore said except i actually got a bunch of the
power range toys especially the ninja ones and
my brother and I would play ninjas and have little
battles.

Of course women hate superheroic things. Look at how unpopular shows like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Kim Possible and The Sarah Connor Chronicles are! And superheroine movies aimed at men with the "OMGSEXXYHOTBABE" factor are so successful, just look at Catwoman and Aeon Flux!

Why do you think "Boys do X, Girls do Y"? Why can't it be "Boys do X and Y, Girls do X and Y" ?

Matt, I love how you say "it's a fact" like that makes it true. It doesn't. And by love I mean completely despise.

Scotty, none of the shows you listed are superhero in nature. One is a vampire show, the other is a sci-fi show, and the other is a cartoon for little kids.

They're all superheroic, though . They all contain badasses who go out, sometimes dress up and fight evil despite not being law enforcement officers.

Girls like action and explosions too, you know. Just because some women watched Sex and the City film doesn't mean there isn't a fuckton of women who'd watch a superheroine film that didn't suck.

Your article states, "Men are interested in action movies with heroes blowing things up and saving the girl. Men are interested in imagining themselves as ass-kicking heroes. Women are interested in movies about relationships and romance and love. Women are interested in imagining themselves finding the right guy and dancing till dawn."

However, the success of shows like Buffy or Dark Angel in drawing large female audiences, which feature women as "ass-kicking heroes" who have superpowers and use them to save the day, contradicts your claim that women are not interested in seeing these things.

Unless you're changing your point to be that many women do like ass-kicking female leads, just not the cape-wearing ones who originated in comic books.

However, women's interest in watching physically powerful, "save the day" female heroes in other contexts, be they superpowered like Buffy & Dark Angel or highly skilled "regular" humans a la Xena, Sarah Connor, or Alias, would seem to indicate that this is a failure of comic book writers to produce interesting female heroes that women want to see, not due to an intrinsic lack of interest on the part of women in seeing female heroics & action-oriented entertainment.

Buffy and Dark Angel were not huge successes. Dark Angel was a failure, which barely managed to stay on the air for a single season. Buffy was a niche show with a very small devoted audience.

Neither of those shows really does much to prove your point. Actually they sort of prove mine. According to you, Buffy was the perfect superhero show geared towards women... and it barely managed to stay on television.

Dark Angel got two seasons...

Since when is seven seasons of a show not a huge success? Do you really think a show gets to stay around for that long if it doesn't draw in an audience?

And then we're not even mentioning the comic they managed to launch afterwards also with a strong female lead character.

Considering how Buffy still managed to get over 4 million viewers despite having a budget so small Sarah Gellar had to wear her own clothes on set + it lasted 7 season, I have to say you're wrong.

Thank you for properly articulating what I meant to say.

One's a vampire show where the main character is a human being with superpowers. I kind of think that qualifies as a superhero.

Unless your definition of superhero is someone who wears a cape... actually, thinking about it, maybe that's where Hollywood's going wrong. Women are more likely to think the capes are stupid.

Just because some women like superhero movies DOES NOT MEAN most do. Sorry, it's a fact. What's next, men protesting that they love Sex and the City more than women? NO. Just because you women like superheroes does not mean you are a majority.

Hey Matt. Can I ask where this FACT came from? I do not have one female friend who doesn't like Superhero movies. And I have some pretty 'girly' friends, as you might call them.

And I wasn't aware that we women were protesting anything, let alone protesting that we like Superhero films more than men. Otherwise I would have brought my picket sign, dangit.

I wanted to add that I agree with you that more movies need to be made for women in general, but I'm forced to disagree that Sex and the City is the type of movie that should be made. Sex and the City is a type of film actually on its way out. (Female buddy films are good, but the Satc girls are dated in their attitudes and behaviors.)

What makes you think that movies like Sex and the City are on the way out... when Sex and the City was one of the highest grossing movies of 2008? The numbers don't seem to support that assertion.

Actually, Josh, I study fans for a living. While the data supports you on men not caring for rom-coms and women not caring for comics in significant numbers, there's a striking twist: there are more hardcore female fans of superheroes and action franchises in general than there are hardcore male fans for the same. This is mostly due to the fact that women outnumber men (particularly college educated women vs college educated men, which is the demographic that watches the most films).

Women tend to look underrepresented in this regard because they participate in fandom in different ways than men do. Men tend towards visual display (dressing up, fan films, etc), while female fans tend towards writing (categorizing, fan fiction, etc). As you've noted, there's many cross-overs between the two - its just a general thing.

But while it's a financial sound decision to not make rom-coms for men (with the exception of anything Judd Apatow does), to avoid making superhero flicks for women is an example of studios leaving money on the table. Their problem? There isn't a large enough pool of female directors interested in superhero films that the film has the right "feel" to it. It inevitably becomes as you suggest, a film for guys about a female character, with the unfortunate addition of being watered down with trash feminism (since they think they're trying to appeal to women but don't know how to do it right). This lack of directors is for the same reason as the undercount of female fans - women aren't as drawn to visualization of their fandom, and there's only a few male directors who present female superheroes well (ok, there's basically Joss Whedon).

I think you're mis-directing your energy, though - it's not that we don't need any more female superheroes, its that we need to make good movies about them instead of crap ones.

First off Kristy, thanks for the well thought out post.

Now a correction. I'm not talking about "fans". Movies like Spider-Man don't make a billion dollars because of fans. They make that kind of money because of the casual, average moviegoer.

When a movie is only supported by fans, the result is Serenity.

Secondly, where do you get this mystical "data" you're referencing? Your data flies in the face of every common sense observation. Have you been to Comic Con? Yes there are women there, but 75% of the crowd is male... and MANY of the girls who are dressed up have been paid to dress up and be there.

Or, have you been to a movie recently? The Dark Knight perhaps? Look around at the audience. Count the number of women you see there without men. Percentage of male/females?

Or maybe you've waited in line for a midnight showing of a popular geek franchise like say Star Wars, or Spider-Man? I have. 5-1 male to female ratio, every single time.

So please explain where you got this data. Because if there are more female superhero fans than male, then they must be the kinds of fans who never leave their homes.

Having seen 8 showings of the Dark Knight, I can was pretty 50-50 at each one as far as I could tell. Even if that wasn't the case could you really blame women for not lining up out the door to see a movie were the only worth note female character is whiny and annoying to the point you're happy when she dies? Or another film were the only female is an object for the guy to desire and win? Give us a good superhero movie with a female lead and then look at the numbers.

I would argue that TDK is not really a superhero movie. It's just a great movie.

I do however agree that women are more inclined to see movies with good female characters though... and there are FAR to few of those in any genre.

If it's not a superhero movie, why'd you use it for your example?

You're judging "fandom" by Comic Con? An event designed for men?

Or by people waiting in line for movies at midnight? Have you considered that women might just watch the movies in different ways? That they might be content to wait a few days and see it at 7pm instead, but still love the movies? I'm a woman who loves science fiction, but I don't think I've ever gone on the first day (well, maybe Serenity). I wait until there are less crowds so it's less claustrophobic. Women are different than men.

Take a look at the internet, hon. The female presence is *massive*, it's just in different areas. We tend towards writing, and sometimes making fanart; not computer games or dressing up or whatever it is the guys tend to do. Take a look at the *massive* world of fanfiction out there - it's incredibly heavily female-dominated, and hey, the fandoms represented aren't Sex and the City! They tend to be science fiction or fantasy.

(Maybe it says something that the only superhero fandom I can think of with a lot of women writing fanfiction is X-Men - which actually has strong female superheroes.)

Men are the more vocal fans; it doesn't mean the women don't exist.

Also, in terms of more general audiences - you said "women there without men". Are these women not significant to you? Are you assuming they're there because they're self-sacrificing and doing everything their boyfriends/husbands want? Chances are they're there because, while the guys refuse to watch rom-coms, the women actually *enjoy* the action movies, sci-fi, etc.

Actually, action & romance have been combined successfully for women - TV shows like Buffy and Alias featured women who spent a large portion of the episode kicking ass and blowing things up, as well as dealing with family & lovers and both had large female audiences.

Aren't super heros just fighting the battle inside themselves? It's curious to read that men don't think women have an evil side to conquer or that women aren't struggling with negative character flaws as often as men. Do men really think our world is always pink and breast cancer might be the only thing that could kill us? If men want to entertain such shallow ideas about women - go ahead. Yes women are perfect and we have no flaws, give me your wallet, silly little man. While you entertain the notion that a woman's mind is fluffy and full of romantic love stories, the reality is that women struggle with bad thoughts too. Will it be more fun to kill you or to screw you?

No one has said anything of the sort... except you.

I'm sorry I was trying to impress you with my evil side, which wasn't impressive at all so you didn't understand my point Josh Tyler. Allow me to try this again, I promise, I won't touch your wallet. When I watch superheros beating up the bad guys I cheer them on! I want to join the cause and bash some heads! What's the cause? Good vs. evil? Life and Death? Man vs. Machine? Ego and ID? Movies are forms of ART, not forms of ADVERTISING to target a market. Good movies like good stories come from bards and/or muses that teach us lessons about ourselves and the world around us. I know that strong characters in good movies leave imprints. Superheros are the strongest imprints of all. They open up hearts and minds so we explore our purpose and place. Both men and women struggle with their purpose and place. I think that struggle is more equal than you are willing to admit. It's only advertisers that divide our cause. They tell us we are emotionally different so they can sell us more stuff. Dividing our needs so we don't share deodorant, socks or even food. They tell us we need different things so we each buy something in an odd colored silly shaped container. I'll share my superhero if you share your mouthwash.

Give me back my wallet.

I agree with the We Need More Female Superheroes article. I'm a girl and a huge comic book geek, and most of my comic loving friends are girls. We all loved the Dark Knight and Iron Man, and we'd all love a girl super hero movie even more. It is possible for girls to like movies that are more than just fluffy romantic comedies. girls like action too. if there were a movie about a female superhero who was more than a two dimensional bimbo in a skanky outfit for boys to gush over, then girls would see it. a strong female hero who kicked ass would attrack female viewers. a well written Wonder Woman movie, or even a Black Canary movie would be awesome. and the Silk Spectres of watchmen will hopefully spark this idea in some writer or director. (the silk spectres are based on Black Canary, a female superhero whos outfit appeals to guys and whos story appeals to girls)

Actually no one saw My Super Ex-Girlfriend becuase the it was marketed so poorly, and marketd as a romantic comedy with a twist. If you want to see a great super-heroine movie with a love story there are better ways to go about it.

The first to come to mind is Serenity but there are countless others.

"Stop trying to force feed women what men want, and consider giving them what women want instead. We don’t need more female superhero movies, we need more movies for females."

But you can have both. I think there is room for superhero films with an eye towards women. You were right when you generalized, "Men are interested in imagining themselves as ass-kicking heroes. Women are interested in movies about relationships and romance and love." so why not write up a film in which the heroine juggles a ticking clock on a bomb and her ticking biological clock?

Judd Apatow has made chick flicks for men by taking out the romance and replacing it with coming-of-age hijinks. David Chase made a soap opera for men by replacing the little things of love and relationships with the little things of being the head of a mafia family. Sex and the City for men is Entourage.

If they are focused on bringing in their core audience:

- Superman has Lois but focuses on saving the world.
- Supergirl saves the world but focuses on finding her fella (or her Lois, depending on how progressive you feel like being).

There are tons of issues that could be dealt with (Heroes had and botched a couple with Claire's trouble fitting in and Elle's Daddy issues).

So I think there is a need for more female superheroes. But Katey and Tera need to realize that what they are asking for is no small task and it's definitely not a job you want the male dominated film studios and comic book industry to take on.

Really well stated, well thought out post man. I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to point out the Apatow example.

I'll counter that with a movie brought up by someone on our forum: My Super-Ex Girlfriend. My Super-Ex Girlfriend attempted to do what you're talking about, make a superhero movie for women. It mixed superhero with rom-com and the result was a movie absolutely no one saw. Men avoided it because it was rom-com and women avoided it because it was superheroes.

I'm not saying it's impossible to do what you're talking about with the superhero genre but as you point out, it's darn near impossible and it's kind of logical that Hollywood wouldn't bother. Heck, Hollywood barely bothers to make any movies for women as it is, that's the real travesty.

Let's get Hollywood making more blockbusters of any kind geared towards women before we ask them to reinvent the wheel. Every summer there are 20 blockbusters geared towards men and maybe 2 towards women. And worse, most of the ones geared towards women are awful. There are more Made of Honors than Sex and the Citys being made.

Imagine a movie being pitched as: It's from a male POV, has no romance, has nothing women could really relate to, and features an irrationally loony woman as the main female character. Oh, and it's geared towards women.

That's My Super Ex-Girlfriend in a nutshell. Even without mentioning the superhero angle, that movie is doomed.

The female-aimed superhero comedy seems somewhat natural to me. Imagine every issue that seems to get blown out of proportion. Superheroes would actually even out said proportions.

Everyone knows that girl who keeps going back to a crappy boyfriend. It's as if he has some superpowers over her. Now he really does in "Her Super Ex-Boyfriend".

Girls often feel threatened by their boyfriends former flames and feel the need to compete with these women who seem perfect. Maybe they are perfect in "His Super Ex-Girlfriend" (and one of the the former flames could be an actual flame)

Every girl has had that friend who gets dumped and acts like it's the end of the world so have "Super Ex-Girlfriend" be about three female friends who are drawn into a plan to save the world because the ex-superhero who's gone mad is actually their best friend and is broken up by her break-up. The world's ice cream reserves are dwindling and Oprah couldn't stop her so it's up to them. They have to team up with their former nemesis, the ex-boyfriend, to calm her down and save the day.

In the end, though, I agree that Hollywood shouldn't focus on making a female superhero movie but I think it would be a good idea for a writer or producer to try to get a handle on it. They could easily corner the market and make a solid brand name for themselves.

Or, alternately, here's a story that doesn't portray women as needy and dependent on men:

Girl finds out her boyfriend is a Super Villain. She breaks up with him. He does something horrible to someone she loves (kills her next boyfriend?) She realizes that the only way to deal with him is to become a superhero herself! Cue origin story/hero's quest/training montage, etc. In the end she totally kicks the crap out of him and it is awesome. Society is grateful to her for removing this nefarious villain.

Tagline: "What if you found out your evil bastard of an ex actually was... Evil?"

Women would see the shit out of that.

I would totally see that movie.

And thank you for making this point before I had to. Well said.

I kind of like My Super Ex-Girlfriend, but I can see at a glance why it's not popular: the main female character is totally unlikeable.

I'll also mention that it's written by a guy, directed by a guy, and the POV character is a guy. How, exactly, is this a film for women?

I completely agree with you that Hollywood needs to make more good movies for us women, and certainly I'd want more well-made rom-coms and other traditionally female genres. But that doesn't stop me desiring a superhero movie for women, too. You can't use existing examples because pretty much all existing movies with "superheroines" (even ensemble ones) are either crap, aimed at men, or both. But I know a lot of women with a fondness for Wonder Woman, and not just comics/sci-fi lovers. Get a *woman* to write/direct a Wonder Woman film; make her a strong character; promote it right, and it should do well.

You actually had me laughing at the idea that anyone would pick that movie as something aimed at women. I mean seriously, have you seen it?

That movie is insulting. It's sexist and it's utterly aimed at men, with a main female character so unlikeable that you want her to shut up and get the hell out, now...

I'm a superhero fan and more specifically a Spider-Man fan, have been for over twenty years, since I read my first issue of Amazing Spider-Man, which I think was around the time he was wearing the black costume that Felicia made for him. (after the symbiote, before Venom)

I can stand Julia Roberts, but wouldn't look up any of her movies if I had anything better to do. When I go in to look for movies, I go for Batman Begins or Batman: the Dark Knight, or Iron Man, or Spider-Man, or the Hulk, though I actually preferred Ang Lee's version.
Or basically any kind of movie that has superheroes in it, that isn't Elektra or Catwoman (not because they have women as leads, but because they plain out sucked.)

I like watching rom coms, but I prefer watching heroes saving the world and fighting bad guys and yet despite your generalizations, I'm still a woman. And so are most of my friends.

When I want to watch a superhero movie, sure I want some humanity in it. Just fighting gets boring. But I don't want it to be about who ends up with whom. Or about some girl obsessing about a man all through the movie.

I want to see a supehero movie with a female lead that is about the heroine's coming of age. I want to see a girl realize her potential and be a hero.

In short I want to watch a superhero movie that is the complete opposite of 'My super ex-girlfriend'.

Instead of trying so hard to point out the differences between men and women lets look at the facts for a minute. My Super-Ex Girlfriend was NOT a good movie. I think men and women would both agree that it generally did not have appeal because it did not look very good and had nothing to do with women avoiding it because it was about a superhero.

I agree with some of your points. Men and Women are different and stereotypically, the majority of women would rather see a "chickflick" before they'd see an action movie, but my main problem is that it's such a broad generalization.

I found myself, a female, wanting to see Batman and Ironman before the thought even accord to see MamaMia. I went to see the curious case of benjamin button with my two GUY friends, who insisted on seeing that over some scary movie which looked stupid. the point of this is, I think people see movies that they think will be good and feel will be worth their time. Batman, one of the best movies I have ever seen had an amazing trailer, a large following, and thats the reason why it was such a box office hit. GOOD MOVIE=LOTTA PEOPLE

The issue with female superheroes is that they are usually targeting men rather then women. The male superheroes have respectable clothing and armored defense, but somehow the women find themselves wearing tight mid-drift shirts and booty shorts with heels. Realistically, who does this appeal to more? Of course the fact that shes a woman kicking ass is cool but what woman can she inspire? A woman in her mid 20s, just out of college with long hair and great legs? Well Great but What about the other 85% of women in America? What about the single mothers? what about the young girls? The truth is, having female superheroes has little to do with a female audience because the movies are,once again, targeting men. This is why wheather or not there are more female superheroes will have little effect of the female following and I honestly dont see any good superhero movies that ARE targeting women specifically. Just Sayin.

I'm a woman, and I'd happily watch an action/adventure, thriller, or superhero movie over some stupid and formula plot rom com. You wouldn't catch me dead watching something like Sex and the City.

On the other end of the spectrum, there's my dad, whom whenever given the chance to select the night's movie, always suggests a rom com.

So that generalization of yours isn't always true.

gen⋅er⋅al⋅i⋅za⋅tion - a proposition asserting something to be true of indefinite PART of a certain class.

PART. Not all. As I said above, there are certainly some women who like superhero movies and there are some men who are big into rom coms. However that is not true for the vast majority. I'm sure you know this to be true.

Herein lies my issue Josh. You're aware that you're basing your article on a generalization and you're okay with that. What generalizations are very good at is alienating those who are not in the PART of a group that you're talking about. Like myself.

The funny part is I agree with you to a slight extent. When it comes down to it. Well written is well written is well written. Making a superhero male or female is not going to make a story good or bad, and it's not going to make me like it or not. It's the characters and the story. So I agree, trying to force comics into a stereotypical female package is not going to reel us in and is a terrible idea. But not because we're not there waiting for good comics, which is what it seems like you're presuming in this article. Rather, It's because we don't want a cardboard stereotypical female package. We just want good comics.

Do you see what I mean?

God do they ever stop whining

They?

Very good points, Josh!

"Nobody is out there trying to force men to get interested in movies about romantic weekends in Paris..."


Clearly, you've never been married.